What is Support ?

I am seeking some feedback from the community regarding a problem I am facing with many clients.

I am a module developer that has been selling modules for many years on this platform. As a part of my service, I provide one-time installation service for Free as a courtesy. However I charge a fee if they need to re-install again in the future.

Recently I have been asked by quite a few persons to reinstall modules for them. When I provide a quote for the service, I receive very negative feedback. Most are saying I am not providing good customer service by not doing re-installations for free whenever they wish. Some have even said they will no longer use my modules or buy from me.

Here is my position below :

Over the years, I have built up a huge clientele of hundreds of persons. It would not be practical for me to provide free installation for every person that buy a module from me every time they decide to reinstall their Dolphin or upgrade to a new version. I would not be able to make a profit if I work like that. The cost for the time I spend doing re-installations as the years go by would be far more than what they originally pay for the module. Can you imagine how much unpaid time I would spend doing free re-installations for more than 1,000 clients every time a new version of Dolphin is released ? 

What do you guys think ? Am I being unreasonable for not offering free installation every time a client decides to reinstall their Dolphin or Upgrade ? Take note that I have never made this promise in my product descriptions. Are other vendors facing this dilemma also ?

In my opinion - your policies are your policies - and if someone does not like it - screw them. Your policies are totally reasonable - especially considering you have been doing this for a while and do have several persons who love your mods and probably look forward to whatever you are going to put out next. If a person does not have enough common sense to understand that you are running a business and as such are trying to make money - then that is their problem. I could see if you just said here buy this module and thats it. It is as is and you have to figure everything out; but no, you offer initial install for free and do give support for your modules - unlike some I have seen still in the market.

Now, on the flip side. If I purchased a module and did not get the free initial install, and then do an upgrade - i may feel that I should still be entitled to my free install, since I never redeemed it to begin with. Those persons I can understand wanting to get it done. Hell, maybe they wanted to try themselves to see if they could, it didnt work, now they need it done right.

But, for someone who has redeemed the free install, and then wants another install because they did an upgrade - well, sorry for your luck, but I dont think that is reasonable for them to even ask such a thing.

Then there is that last scenario. I did get the free install, but you did an update to the module. In most cases, it is a simply copy over of original files with new ones, but not everyone is comfortable with doing that, or even trying to do an upgrade. Like me. I have never done a dolphin upgrade as i have seen too many people with issues after doing so. I tried for the first time ever, and it didnt work. I eneded up wiping site and starting over with the new version. So, for a scenario like that - in which you made changes to your module - I can see people asking for the update to be done for free.

Again, this is just my opinion, and probably why I do not sell anything on the market here.

As a consumer, I think you're being completely fair. A one-time installation is more than most vendors will do. 

I personally think you should just offer the product for download, and then charge a fixed fee for any installation service (first time and then after).

From a service agreement standpoint, I think developers should only have to support their mods to the default versions of dolphin. Many users have such a customized version, that I can see supporting various customized versions to be a nightmare. For users with a customized version, then it would be ideal if you had an hourly rate that you would charge to assist them.

I bought a few modules from you but everytime i buy one from you the modules will not install correct. So i have to ask you for support. I have no problem to manage my self but if your module not work from the beginning so i will already loose my free 1 support because you not give a working module for downloading. Maybe this is what developer on the market do here to have access to your website URL and to control the module you buy. I have buy so many modules on the market but i can't remember even one module that was working from the beginning after downloading.

Edit: Sorry actually 2 developer was perfect to buy from. AntonLV and Rayz there modules did work perfect after downloading.

 Not to be rude, but it may be something with your dolphin install itself if you are consistently having problems installing modules. Having been using dolphin since 6, I have had almost zero issues installing a module from the market. Just curious - did you by chance use an auto installer to setup your dolphin the very first time?

Never use a auto installer. I have my own server so that is not a problem. The module from Modzzz i bougt did not work correct so he have to correct the errors.

It's so boring to buy one module on the market and after downloading the module is not working correct. You have to contact the seller ask for support and they want access to FTP and so on to correct the errors. Almost like they don't want to give you a working module from the beginning after you buy it.

I have never tried to charge you for fixing an issue with a module you bought from me. Also you can simply change your FTP login after a developer has accessed your site. I cannot think of any valid reason why any developer would want to "control a module you buy".

Which module are you referring to here ? The last mail I saw from you was in 2013 and I do not see any issue in our email history that is not resolved.

1) I've purchased many of your modules & have always done the install myself. They all work perfectly as described.

2) You always respond FAST when I notice any small bug or have a technical question (typically right after a new version of Dolphin is released). Your customer service is excellent.

3) One free install should be included with purchase. That's all! Future upgrades should be at a flat fee or hourly rate (depending on whether the customer has done some customizations to your module). For a customer to expect free re-installs for life is crazy and unsustainable. You're being taken advantage of.

It's not like we're paying $250 for each module. Modules are very affordable already (typically $25 - $50).

The best thing you can do is specifically state on your module pages that future re-installs will cost $___.

The only exception I see is if the monthly subscription model is implemented in the marketplace. Then, yes, maybe include free re-installs as part of the monthly fee. That's extra incentive to keep customers paying the subscription fee every month.

Otherwise, no, charge a fee for each re-install.

i bought the points and the models. But they did not work after downloading. But they did after you made some changes. No problem. Right now i'm not using your modules longer. Maybe in the future.

My opinion as a client. Do not change your way of working. The price of your modules is not excessive, I have much, you know and I have never had to complain about your service. You are always there, answering quickly and you never leave the only people in their problems.

Everything that has a well-built brain can imagine the hours of work involved, not counting the time to acquire the necessary knowledge.

All this is included in the price of your modules and is already a lot.

Not enough for some people? That does not surprise me. You can do nothing against this because even if you work totally free, those are not yet satisfied.

Leave those to the side, they will not find better elsewhere.

I love this community, not only for Dolphin, also because people like you are present.

Thank you for the work you do, I also thank other developers, no need to mention, they recognize, I'm sure.

I dont understand why you even take this up. To install a working module is so easy. Never have any problem with the built in modules or with Rayz modules. Maybe it's your modules that is not correct to install or some other problem with your modules.

You have totally missed the point of this post. Whether something is easy to do or not is not the issue. Not everyone feels comfortable installing a module even though the process is not complicated. This post is not about solving problems with first time installations. It is about re-installation or update of already working modules on a site that has been upgraded.

If you talk to the installation error, I do not follow you. I never had this problem.

If you talk about small bugs, I am you, it happens, but it seems normal when they are new modules, it is hard to think of everything and the real test is still in real conditions.

It's never anything serious and it is quickly resolved.

Sorry too, but how do you get help without opening the door to your server? If you do not trust, created an account you then delete when your problem is solved ... it's that simple.

As a developer myself, I can total understand the point of modzzz.

As a customer of modzzz, I really love some of his modules!

A big Thank You for all the work done!

 There is nothing wrong with your support model. I doubt the will be anything you can do about people that think they are somehow deserving of special attention.  There are a lot of socialists in this world, that believe they should not pay as much just because they are not as financially successful as others.  I expect it is that mentality you are encountering.  All you can do, is spell out your support terms on product pages... most reasonable minded people will be OK with your support policies.

 Agreed.

I'm surprised that the initial install is done at no charge.

It wouldn't surprise me if the same customers that want free installs for life are the same ones that expect to run a Web Site the size of Facebook on a $3.99 Per Month GoDaddy Hosting Account. LOL

I purchased a couple of modules from you earlier in the year. I still have install at least one but that's my fault. I didn't and don't expect you to install anything for me. That goes with every module I purchase.

In fairness to all, one of your modules didn't work out of the box. I wrote to you and received a reply within hours. You made some changes, but they still didn't work. I once again wrote and you also replied with a new fix within hours and the module worked fine. I know you would have been busy at the time, but I considered your attention and after sales service to be excellent!

I'm having trouble with another module from another vendor and my 4 day old forum post still hasn't been answered. I expect an equal delay when I email him.

May I suggest you offer the module for xxx dollars and ongoing service for yyy dollars per year or per install. That's what a few others are doing.

In my opinion - your policies are your policies - and if someone does not like it - screw them.

Sorry ProfessorSr you do not know what good service is.

All of the biggest retailers in the world knows to achieve a good customer retention rate is to give good service. Even when you have to charge or say no but still give good service. I have been working in the customer service retail industry for over 25 years and yes I work for the largest retailer in the world and now work for the second largest. And the culture may change but the main principles stay the same and that is customer service. You could sell someone a pile of dog shit as long as you have good customer service skills. I would bet anyone that the vendors on this site are not making a huge profit with there modules because of customer service. For one reason is customers complain not vendors. Customers = complain / Vendors = explain.

Is there a thread on how to install modules?

let me elaborate. I did not actually say everything I wanted to as the post was already loong, but since it was brought up:

Modzz service is on point (although that is not what the topic was about). Which is probably the biggest reason people buy more of his modules. They work great and he stands behind them. But at the same time - he is trying to make money. I work in retail myself, just so you know. It is not a big company, but it does pretty well for itself, so I do understand that customer service is extremely important. But besides all of that. His policies are what they are, and if someone does not like his policies - so be it. There are enough of us that have no issue with his policies, so are fortunate enough to experience his customer service.

Each module comes with it's own installation instructions, typically in a readme.txt file. Also, most modules have a support forum to entertain questions or bug reporting.

One free installation is very gracious; so don't sweat about those that complain when you say no to additional free installations.

 Yes, that is true but what does that have to do with people wanting a second or third free installation of a module?

I have lots of your modules.  When I first started getting serious using (learning) the Dolphin platform in 2012,  you installed many of the first round of purchases I made from you and I appreciated the time you provided.  I wouldn't expect you to reinstall them for free... ever.  Your install instructions are fine and I don't remember ever having a problem that didn't require re-reading the instructions.  Plus you've always been quick to fix bugs with your modules (or point out it's not your module that's causing the error) and occasionally you've made a few small improvements when I've suggested it.  Understandable, larger or unique changes have been quoted for contract work.  Overall, I like how you've done and continue to do business.

Single free install is a good service, at least enables users to get them going if for some reason they are not able to do it themselves.

Further 'reinstallations' I think its fine to charge for.

Maybe add something to your module notes within market to state along these lines if not already done so, if some have an issue with this?

Well this post is surprising to me - the most informative communication I have seen from you Jerome.  My comments:

"What do you guys think ? Am I being unreasonable for not offering free installation every time a client decides to reinstall their Dolphin or Upgrade ? Take note that I have never made this promise in my product descriptions. Are other vendors facing this dilemma also ?"

1. I do believe that reinstallation charges are completely reasonable, provided that your module coding is valid and will install as directed by the instructions you always provide.

"When I provide a quote for the service, I receive very negative feedback"

2. I personally have asked what it would cost to reinstall/break fix modified modules from you.  Half the time it requires multiple emails just to get you to respond.  The lack of timely responses to inquiries is my biggest bitch.  I've been MORE than willing to pay you and any other developer for their services, provided that the work done is competently, and completed as promised without a ridiculous amount of follow-up.  Currently, I have yet to get a response back from you on the 3 requests I've sent you.  And I've made it VERY clear that I will pay you for your services!

So... I have a question / suggestion back to you.  You sell a Ticket Module and a Project Module - why don't you use these on your own site to manage customer requests and project engagements?  Supporting 100's of modules using Boonex is insane.  Many other developers manage purchases/licensing and support via their own site.  Personally, I can't stand using the Boonex email system to work with developers on module customization or any other service engagements. 

At the end of the day, providing great customer service involves clear/concise and timely communication.  If we as consumers know what to expect from you, and you deliver on those expectations, then life should hum along fine for all.

 Wanting more for less, because you don't have the financial means, is socialist in nature.  That's one explanation for wanting free stuff.  I suppose there are other explanations, most likely due to lack of funds for one reason or other.  Point is, just because someone doesn't have money to spend, does not entitle them to free stuff, or cheaper stuff, or having someone else pay their way.... in this case, the vendor. If that isn't socialism, I don't know what is.

You have always been fair and excellent in your service. Great products and support!

I think you are perfectly right........the rule is stated as at the beginning : first instal free if requested.

I don't see any issue paying for additionnal instal requests if needed.......reasonable price.

This being said, the more we add modules the more each upgrade is a pain and upgrades are following each other...I mean these could be more groupped so that the number if upgrades would be reduced.

another thing as well is that I find fair if you develop a specific code which obviously is charged to the customer, that you provide the reasonable means for that customer to reproduce that specific in the case of upgrades for instance.....makes sense I think but not always followed. I am thinking about a small explanation of the set up

anyway, thanks for your nice work

Modzzz, Charge them. They I am sure are making money off yours and other developers modules here. If there to lazy to learn about what they are trying to make money from. Then Yes charge them a fee. Free the first and jack the price up more each time they need it re-installed. You are here to make money.

No, it is not.

Is this thread still going wow I can not believe it. But let me play devil's advocate for a minute. The truth is most of us on here are not computer literate, in fact I'm taking to classes now finding out what html is and how to write code. Classes which are costing me $600.00 each but I'm sure will pay off in the end. I finally found out how to add boxes around my navigation links. What I'm trying to say is when someone buys a module they may have tried the module out but do not know exactly how the module works or to install it. My website had to be restarted several times because some of my modules or template caused a few of my other modules to have errors. A few times other vendors will fix there module but do not want to fix the error there module caused. in this case I have paid to have the modules reinstalled but at my expense. Other times I say the module is not a huge factor and delete it. But there are times when a module does not work correctly either with newer versions of boonex or the instructions was not clear and we all have seen post where modules didn't work at all. With  what I'm learning I'm willing to help anyone for free because I know first hand how hard it was for me as a newbie to install a module. Just the other day I had to contact a vendor AntonL and he was great I tried to install two module but I was installing them in the wrong order. he took a look and fixed the problem. This month I will be purchasing more modules from him and right now he is the only vendor I trust. Quick response and fixed the problem free of charge. He is awesome!

Saw this Add floating around my Facebook page and thought of this thread. Although the original was in reference to a freelance photographer... its pretty much fitting for developers too.

“Photographer Developer Looking For People to Do Their Job Without Pay”

I am a photographer module developer and since people are always looking for free shoots  work I assume that they must also do their job, or provide their services, for free. 

I am looking to hire all types of people to do all sorts of jobs for me, as long as I do not have to pay anything. Just think, you will gain more experience, and I will put the word out for you and let everyone know what wonderful work you do. This opportunity will bring you a ton of unpaid work, but everyone will love you. So if you have a job or service you provide, and will do it for free, please let me know, because I am sure I have work for you and will hire you in a second.

Feel free to email me with the service you can provide, when you can start, and please include references. 

I look forward to you free service.

Thanks,

:)

 Can you please supply link of page in which you saw this?

http://petapixel.com/2011/10/05/photographer-looking-for-people-to-do-their-job-without-pay/