This whole change in Dolphin to Dolphin Pro and licensing I am beginning to really dislike. There is just not enough information, detailed information, coming from Boonex. Telling me; as AlexT did on the Blog, that I will have a key/license for each module is not enough. I want detail information on how it is going to work so I can make an informed decision as to if I want to continue with future releases of Dolphin or just develop my site in-house adding the features I need. For example, the news of Moxie Manger resulted in a yawn from me because there are plenty of open source file managers on the net and I have had one in place since the beginning of my site.
The community asked for a renaming of Dolphin U and instead; because Andrew Boon can not admit he made a mistake on the naming, gives us Dolphin Pro with a new licensing scheme.
Geeks, making the world a better place |
RE:
For example, the news of Moxie Manger resulted in a yawn from me because there are plenty of open source file managers on the net and I have had one in place since the beginning of my site.
Not everyone will experience such a lethargic response. MoxieManager is a commercial product, that can be properly licensed and distributed with a product, and you don't have to worry about the development team vanishing into a black hole like so many other open source teams have. It's a good move by Boonex.
My opinions expressed on this site, in no way represent those of Boonex or Boonex employees. |
RE:
For example, the news of Moxie Manger resulted in a yawn from me because there are plenty of open source file managers on the net and I have had one in place since the beginning of my site.
Not everyone will experience such a lethargic response. MoxieManager is a commercial product, that can be properly licensed and distributed with a product, and you don't have to worry about the development team vanishing into a black hole like so many other open source teams have. It's a good move by Boonex.
Yes, adding Moxie Manager is a good move by Boonex for many people; I even stated on the blog that it was nice of Boonex to offer it. However, for many that is not what they wanted; and some will want to disable it (it needs to be selectable by the admin of a site).
HL, you really missed the main gist of the post; it was not about Moxie Manager.
Geeks, making the world a better place |
HL, you really missed the main gist of the post
No I didn't. I just had no interest in commenting on the "gist". That's why, if you noticed, I quoted a small portion, and not the post in it's entirety. I really hate when I have to explain things like this.
My opinions expressed on this site, in no way represent those of Boonex or Boonex employees. |
I agree more information is needed...
If there a new license scheme how does it appear old timers like myself who got grandfather over....
http://vi-bin.com |
There is just not enough information, detailed information, coming from Boonex. Telling me; as AlexT did on the Blog, that I will have a key/license for each module is not enough. I want detail information on how it is going to work
Site owner have to generate key&license on boonex.com and enter them in dolphin - so dolphin site can ask boonex.com for some info from the market for the site owner, for example list of bought modules.
Communication is performed using OAuth via https protocol.
Upon first install - module is linked to the particular key&secret, after first module install it is impossible to install it on another site.
Key&secret is linked to the particular site, so this pair have to be generated for every dolphin site you have.
Modules are updated automatically if they are in boonex market and free or was bought by the user.
All these is already working in Dolphin U - so you can try to see how it works!
Rules → http://www.boonex.com/terms |
There is just not enough information, detailed information, coming from Boonex. Telling me; as AlexT did on the Blog, that I will have a key/license for each module is not enough. I want detail information on how it is going to work
Site owner have to generate key&license on boonex.com and enter them in dolphin - so dolphin site can ask boonex.com for some info from the market for the site owner, for example list of bought modules.
Communication is performed using OAuth via https protocol.
Upon first install - module is linked to the particular key&secret, after first module install it is impossible to install it on another site.
Key&secret is linked to the particular site, so this pair have to be generated for every dolphin site you have.
Modules are updated automatically if they are in boonex market and free or was bought by the user.
All these is already working in Dolphin U - so you can try to see how it works!
this feature is for dolphin U only or for dolphin PRO also..
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They are going to apply the same licensing of Dolphin U to Dolphin Pro. Now, with Dolphin U there was a somewhat promise that you would NOT have to allow your site to connect to Boonex. There is no real information on how the licensing works, perhaps they are afraid that too much information will result in hacks.
I don't want my modules to have to call home to work; I don't want to have to worry that if Boonex fucks up that my modules stop working and my site goes to shits.
Geeks, making the world a better place |
I really don't like anything about these moves, but decided to not comment on the blog. First of all, Boonex managed to confuse the naming even more. I maintain there are actually four products now - D6 (which most people no longer care about), D7.0 (there are still a few of us), D7.1 (under current license) and D7.2 (if that is its name - under new license). These last two 'products are being called collectively "Dolphin Pro" - but if they have two licenses, they are two products.
GG stated the issue correctly - we still don't have enough information to make a rational decision, but it looks more and more like the people who have D7.1 sites will have to make the same decision that D6 and D7.0 users made - to "go it alone" from that point forward, or to trustingly follow Boonex. While Boonex claims it is only Dolphin U that is going to be "more tightly controlled" by Boonex, there are indications they are planning something like that for what they are calling "Dolphin Pro". Your "ownership" of the software will be in a much more murky area and will be more tightly linked to the Boonex market.
In addition, they still seem to be planning to release the Dolphin U beta before they even bother providing bug fixes and updates to D7.1 - already a year behind schedule so for all intents and purposes that is an unsupported product now - no matter how many blog posts people write. I also didn't like the tone - it was like "hurry up and buy these licenses now, because we are really going to screw people in the future". At the very least, they need some help with messaging - that is not going to inspire anyone to run out and buy a license. Past is prologue - and for people to think they should buy a license at a reduced rate now because you are going to be so awesome in the future, will look to the recent past to see if you have been awesome them - and with no updates for 14 months, that is a hard case to make, and even sounds a little scammy.
Finally, this community itself is being use for a kind of "pivot". While a few here are keeping the fires burning, this is no longer really about open source developers helping each other, now it is much more of a testing community for the Boonex development hobby. For people who are into that, fine - I did it once with the long series of alphas leading up to D7.0 and said "never again". I thought they had learned from their mistakes on that project, but apparently not.
Sorry, I am not real optimistic about the future here.
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So what happens with custom modules that I have had developed exclusively for my own use??? One of them has cost me £4k so far and i am about to extend it by much more.... I certainly don't want to be restricted to using it on just one site after that kind of investment. I have developed it as a multi use module that fits several of my ideas for multiple sites....
How will my custom modules be licensed???
I can see this causing great confusion to everyone, and also contracting the modules and custom work market somewhat.
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I've described it already in details how it works, what else do you want to know ?
They are going to apply the same licensing of Dolphin U to Dolphin Pro. Now, with Dolphin U there was a somewhat promise that you would NOT have to allow your site to connect to Boonex. There is no real information on how the licensing works, perhaps they are afraid that too much information will result in hacks.
I don't want my modules to have to call home to work; I don't want to have to worry that if Boonex fucks up that my modules stop working and my site goes to shits.
Rules → http://www.boonex.com/terms |
I would suggest as a momentary safeguard, to make a backup of your site and then remove everything specific to that site other than your module, so you have a 'template' site to build others on.
At least until you have it working for sure with next update.
I 'lost' some expensive custom work that was done on a few modules when we jumped from 7.0 to 7.1... haveing to re-build them now.
So what happens with custom modules that I have had developed exclusively for my own use??? One of them has cost me £4k so far and i am about to extend it by much more.... I certainly don't want to be restricted to using it on just one site after that kind of investment. I have developed it as a multi use module that fits several of my ideas for multiple sites....
How will my custom modules be licensed???
I can see this causing great confusion to everyone, and also contracting the modules and custom work market somewhat.
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Custom modules will work the same way as it works now, you upload it to the modules folder - then install it in Administration area.
No any limitations, the code is not encrypted or obfuscated, instead it is much more documented.
Now developers have to implement own methods to check product license, we are incorporating license checking into Dolphin core to make it easy for developers to protect their products, however they are free to use own methods additionally.
Dolphin users are benefit as well since they can install modules from the market directly from Dolphin U Studio (or Dolphin Pro Admin Panel)
So what happens with custom modules that I have had developed exclusively for my own use??? One of them has cost me £4k so far and i am about to extend it by much more.... I certainly don't want to be restricted to using it on just one site after that kind of investment. I have developed it as a multi use module that fits several of my ideas for multiple sites....
How will my custom modules be licensed???
I can see this causing great confusion to everyone, and also contracting the modules and custom work market somewhat.
Rules → http://www.boonex.com/terms |
I'm going to use both of them. Somebody start building a mod for multi-site login for Dolphin Pro and Dolphin U together. I can imagine somebody having a bunch of sites using both software and wanting each person to be able to use all of the sites with one log in and one profile. The new licensing is what I like the most. |
I've described it already in details how it works, what else do you want to know ?
They are going to apply the same licensing of Dolphin U to Dolphin Pro. Now, with Dolphin U there was a somewhat promise that you would NOT have to allow your site to connect to Boonex. There is no real information on how the licensing works, perhaps they are afraid that too much information will result in hacks.
I don't want my modules to have to call home to work; I don't want to have to worry that if Boonex fucks up that my modules stop working and my site goes to shits.
As long as I can download the freaking module, ftp it up to my site, and install it in the admin just as I do now, then fine. Otherwise I don't want Boonex doing anything directly to my server. Furthermore, I don't want Boonex updating anything automatically, a recipe for disaster. I also don't like the idea that the site has to "call home". If you can somehow have the module encoded with the freaking key when I download it, then that is fine. Just as long as my site does not have to "call home" to Boonex for my module to work.
Geeks, making the world a better place |
@GG. Not sure how boonex will handle the licensing. However at this time i have no licensing on my modules. And there is only one reason as to why i would want or need to license my products and that is to deal with one specific situation/problem.
The specific situation i am referring to cannot be solved with a key file. Well actually it can if key files with a expire date are used. However that would force the customer to have to download a new key file every month.
Key files are normally permanent, and would work fine for permanent licenses that would never have to be revoked or expired.
The situation i am referring to that requires a licensing server for it to work as intended is in the cases where a customer purchases a module, the key is issued then a couple of weeks later does a charge-back.
In my opinion once that charge back is done, they no longer have the right to continue to use that module, thus i need a way to revoke the key to force the module to stop working.
It's this reason only that i would have to even put a license on a module. Just for that one ability. And it's that one ability that's pretty much not possible with a key file unless the key files expire and new ones have to be downloaded every month. I think most people will find that key file method a bit of a pain when used in that method. https://www.deanbassett.com |
All i can think: restrictions, restrictions and more restrictions.
As a site owner i wanna decide where or how i want to do things. The more i hear and read about the changes the less interested i become to continue building a D 7 aka D Classic aka D Pro website. |
I fully understand the need to protect modules from being reused; coding is a lot of work, testing modules is a lot of work; and the developer should always be paid if someone wants to use the module. There has to be a reasonable solution that can work; at least most of the time (even the best of schemes can be broken if enough resources are thrown at it). Authorisation servers can break; many users of Microsoft Windows found their legal licensed copies of Windows suddenly reporting that the software was not authorised which meant calls to Microsoft support to try and get the OS authorised again before it shut down and refused to boot. Geeks, making the world a better place |
What is your website? :-)
This whole change in Dolphin to Dolphin Pro and licensing I am beginning to really dislike. There is just not enough information, detailed information, coming from Boonex. Telling me; as AlexT did on the Blog, that I will have a key/license for each module is not enough. I want detail information on how it is going to work so I can make an informed decision as to if I want to continue with future releases of Dolphin or just develop my site in-house adding the features I need. For example, the news of Moxie Manger resulted in a yawn from me because there are plenty of open source file managers on the net and I have had one in place since the beginning of my site.
The community asked for a renaming of Dolphin U and instead; because Andrew Boon can not admit he made a mistake on the naming, gives us Dolphin Pro with a new licensing scheme.
http://www.busimatch.club ( The most exclusive business club) |
I've described it already in details how it works, what else do you want to know ?
As long as I can download the freaking module, ftp it up to my site, and install it in the admin just as I do now, then fine. Otherwise I don't want Boonex doing anything directly to my server. Furthermore, I don't want Boonex updating anything automatically, a recipe for disaster. I also don't like the idea that the site has to "call home". If you can somehow have the module encoded with the freaking key when I download it, then that is fine. Just as long as my site does not have to "call home" to Boonex for my module to work.
It still possible to disable all automatic updates and install modules using old way - by uploading it by ftp
Rules → http://www.boonex.com/terms |
When module license is revoked, the module will still be working, however it will be number of limitations:
- updates will not work
- module could stop working when Dolphin is updated
- when domain is changed then module can't be installed (only old version can be installed by ftp)
@GG. Not sure how boonex will handle the licensing. However at this time i have no licensing on my modules. And there is only one reason as to why i would want or need to license my products and that is to deal with one specific situation/problem.
The specific situation i am referring to cannot be solved with a key file. Well actually it can if key files with a expire date are used. However that would force the customer to have to download a new key file every month.
Key files are normally permanent, and would work fine for permanent licenses that would never have to be revoked or expired.
The situation i am referring to that requires a licensing server for it to work as intended is in the cases where a customer purchases a module, the key is issued then a couple of weeks later does a charge-back.
In my opinion once that charge back is done, they no longer have the right to continue to use that module, thus i need a way to revoke the key to force the module to stop working.
It's this reason only that i would have to even put a license on a module. Just for that one ability. And it's that one ability that's pretty much not possible with a key file unless the key files expire and new ones have to be downloaded every month. I think most people will find that key file method a bit of a pain when used in that method.
Rules → http://www.boonex.com/terms |
