Group owner not able to chat in shoutbox

Group owner not able to chat in shoutbox

Only Group's fans can post in the Group's ShoutBox. Owner can easily become a fan of the own page and start write to the Shoutbox.

However group's admin can delete entries from the shoutbox without becoming a fan.

The same for Events - only the event's participants can post to Shoutbox.

 So group or event creater should automatically become fan of it :) It will reduce the confusion of not being able to communicate. 

 It's very strange that group (event) owner have to enter his one group (event) as a fan.

Can You, please, describe one real situation when it necessary NOT to be the fan of owned group (event).

IMHO it so strange and so different from all we know about social groups.

May be, it's time to make group (event) starter to be a fan by default (with nice and shiny button "to unfan" his own group when/if it meets  described above (indeed?) situation) ?

That's crazy, for goodness sakes just make the owner of the group be able to chat in the shout box. A group owner not being able to chat in his own group unless he is a fan is just weird to put it politely.

A man must have designed this I am sure because a woman would never do something so obviously silly. 

There are situations:

- Someone could create groups on behalf of someone.

- Also site admin could create some default groups on the site, but actually he is not fan of them, later there maybe other admins of the group from the actual group fans.

It was designed this way from the beginning.

These are rare exceptions and not the normal. In my opinion, design patterns should be based on regular occurrences rather than with the exceptions. It is totally absurd that Group Owners cannot Chat in Shoutbox. Please fix the design flaw.

Can You, please, describe one real situation when it necessary NOT to be the fan of owned group.

I'll accept that challenge.  Lets say I'm building a sports site for NFL football fans.  I'm going to create a 'Group' for each of the 32 NFL teams.  As a 'Houston Texans' fan, I'll join that group and chat with fellow fans, but I certainly have no desire to be a fan of the 'Indianapolis Colts' or to chat with their fans.

Let's say I go on to expand the sports site and create 'Groups' for NBA teams, MLB teams, Soccer teams,.etc.  Then as years go by, there are groups for college teams as well. There will be hundreds of groups that I created, that I have no desire to be a member of, or any desire to chat with any of the members.... nor would I even want my name associated with any of them... other than the one that I am a fan of in real life.

I can understand both views here, but I certainly wouldn't call it totally absurd that group owners can't chat in the shoutbox without becoming a fan, nor would I call it a design flaw.  It never really bugged me that I had to join a group that I created. 

Automatically becoming a fan of a group you create, is most definitely NOT the right thing to do.  Personally, I think it's just fine the way it is, and I'd just change that 'Access Denied' message to reflect that you must join this group to use the shout box.

Few problems i found out in the group or event

1. Group or event creater have to become  the fan ( While there is always option button to leave the group).

2. Buttons alignment issue in manage fans.

3. Buttons in the group doesn't clearly mention about making some else as admin they need to be changed.

4. Power to make some 1 else as an admin will always remain in the hands of the group creater ( New admin can do all the rest, even kick out the creater but can't make any one else as an admin)

http://www.boonex.com/trac/dolphin/ticket/3574 

 Thanx for answer :) Notice that it was Site Admin's point of view. Give me one real reason  to user of site, who just wants to open his one new (privet) group (or event) NOT to be a fan there... mind, that I'm not talking about chats - more about comments and privet content.

And you now what? I can totally agree with your example IF you agree with my next note : In group creation form needs to be added radio button (check box, drop menu, captcha pazzle, niagara pull, bull tail, whatever) says "make me a fan of this group" checked by default (for hard working admins from your example - to uncheck). Deal?

The only answer  I can provide today to my users I've read here  from AlexT : It was designed this way from the beginning. Sounds kinda familiar ... remind me some  MS's DOS explanation in 1997. But let's ask ourselves: do we really want to sound like that?

1-Yes, it is the reason. Now tell me please, what happens more :

- someone creates group and events on behalf of someone else

- or someone opens groups(events) to be a member of? but even if you don't know - look more in #2

2- Admin is  more advanced user of site, it will be very simple for him to uncheck  box "make me fan of group/event" checked by default in group/ event creation form. Let's agree, it is more comfortable for all.

What's so hard about clicking a button to join the group?  I hate the idea of having to uncheck a box to opt out of something.... it's a constant source of annoyance all over the internet. You have to uncheck boxes to not get spam emails, you have to uncheck boxes to not install toolbars and other crap software that you don't want, etc.  If I don't remember to uncheck a box when I update Adobe Flash, I have some Mcafee crap installed on my computer. It gives me stress just thinking about it.

That leaves having to check a box to be added as a fan on adding a group, which  is no better than clicking that join button.  The only thing that would not annoy me, would be a setting in the groups module admin: [  ] Add group owner as  a fan    Unchecked by default..  This would have to work so that the group creator is automatically added as a fan ONLY when the group is created and NOT when it is edited.

However, I like the way it works now. I can think of at least a dozen things to make the groups module better, and those will be the things that I gripe about.

 Tolerance is my middle name. Agree. Let's see if Boonex takes this (our now, yep?) challenge. And I want to be clear : for me it starts from Shoutbox but spreads wider. 

One more thing I want to note : You think as admin, very busy hard working one. And I'm appreciate this, You have all reasons to think so. But sometimes try to look at a problem from the side of someone, who came to get fun, somebody You want to choose your site because it comfortable, easy, intuitive, simple untill obvious, somebody who don't want even to look at chocolate bar of Actions and to consider  "a... if i see the Join button, i'm not a member... a...", in other word, somebody who's name is legion. Of course, You have all the rights to hate sites that even idiots can use. But look around : most UI in the world are designed so, from tap to iPhone.