Comments now have live updates

I see you guys are finally starting to listen, which is a good start for DU & boonex, thanks!   Now that you & DU have my attention, lets discuss this even further to turn a good start into a GREAT start.  

"We are intentionally opting for notifications instead of actually pushing comments themselves, because adding comments in real-time would inevitably make the thread of comments move, and may thus interfere with reading. You just don't want your page to jump around unexpectedly"
This can be addressed many different ways, and as I keep stating "choice is always good".  The only way the page would jump around is if site owners have their comments displayed by newest first.  I however, am one of the few who does not use the newest first order of comments, I use oldest first (thats just more logical to me).

For those of us who use the order of oldest first will not be affected by thread comments moving, page jumping around unexpectedly, which does NOT interfere with reading at all, is for you guys to go about this by adding the new comments at the bottom, which will prevent page jumping around and the threads moving, thus...user stays focused on reading and has new comments awaiting for user to read.

By doing that, you will be granting us with the much needed option of real time push comments, and not condemning us to the whole old and OUT DATED PAGE REFRESH method you are currently using.  Again, we are going into 2015, for those who dont mind out dated means of page refreshing, great for them, but I sure as hell would like to be on an equal playing field as the other major sites that provides users with real time comments to stay engaged.

From observing how you are going about trying to implement "live updates", I can tell that you guys are only thinking about small sites with only a couple hundred users at most.  You also have to keep in mind that some sites are large already, or may become large in the future.  So Im asking that you guys please implement this extra functionality that I have been begging for since a few years back, it will only HELP, and not hurt.  If there is some technology limitation preventing this, then let me know, and I'll just shut up about it.

Every since you guys have said that "DU will not have real time comments", I haven't even bothered looking or thinking about DU, because you killed all of my hopes of it being useful for my purposes.  I just checked my email, and seen your email about "live updates" and some hope has been restored because you are finally starting to listen to us little guys, so please continue to listen. 

are these live comment update will available in blogs also..when they will add blog module..

 RE:

I'd have to disagree with just about everything you said after that. Whether page content moves at the bottom or at the top, it's annoying as hell if it happens unexpectedly.

Newest comments first is the best because if you have a thread with a lot of comments, then users will have to scroll or page through a lot of pages to see the newest comments.  Having oldest first is not a good idea on a very active thread.

 Exactly!

 HL, you're misunderstanding me (probably because I wasn't as specific as I should've been) but let me explain.

The way that Im speaking of does not involve page content or comments moving at all, pretty much the way that FB does it.
If Im reading a thread that has 200 comments, and new comments are coming in at a pretty fast rate, maybe 30 comments per minute, they are just added to the bottom of the existing comments, no matter how many new comments arrive, the comment block does NOT move ever, and I stay focused on reading the comment that I was reading.  If I want to get to the new comments, I simply keep reading or just scroll down whenever Im ready to.  Of all the bad things that I do not like about fb, I can say that they have implemented a brilliant comment system.

This is why I've been begging for boonex to implement for a couple of years now, because it is the real time comments + real time updates & notifications which = CONSTANT ENGAGEMENT!  This is where fb dominates & how they are king of the hill.  By implementing this, you are empowering site owners with one of the most (if not the most) important functionality to stand a chance against some of the "giants".  

On another note, look at all the new android/apple apps that are soaring out of nowhere?  Take Instagram for example, it came out of nowhere and became one of the top apps to have.  It only shows 15 seconds of a video, video compression isn't superb, and it doesn't do too much of anything spectacular....so HOW?  EASY...real time comments/notifications/updates!  These apps are the next best thing (to users) than fb, and all kinds of apps are going viral with millions of users, more apps are coming too...its almost 2015 and us site owners have to compete against apps too?  Give us some of the tools we need to stand a chance booonex.  As I said before, nobody wants to leave a 2015 dodge viper (fb and apps with real time comments) for some old ancient prehistoric steam car (websites with no real time comments).  

This is the information age, fb/instagram has spoiled us with getting INSTANT info, anything less than that is absurd & retarded (to most users).  Why put something in the oven that will take over an hour to make when you can microwave it in 20 seconds?  This is the mentality of most users, and I've been trying to share one of the secret & successful ingredients so that all of the site owners here can benefit greatly from it.

 They will have to do this anyway if they want to check out the whole thread of comments.  I guess I can say its a matter of preference then.  Even here at boonex, comments are oldest 1st which is very logical (to me).  If I come here for help, I cant imagine starting from page 3 of the comments and reading back in time to page 1, especially with everyone using quotes, which mean I will probably read what was quoted several times.  My brain is just wired "differently", even during gaming, most users play with their control for movement normal, which is up means up, down means down, I can play that way, but its far easier for me to play by turning Invert on, down means up & up means down, lol. and so newest comments first (to me) would be the same as reading a book from chapter 30 all the way back to chapter 1 the beginning, I cant see that, lol.  

Im an extremely competitive gamer, and usually is ranked in the top 500 out of MILLIONS of gamers.  A few months ago, I was ranked #90 out of millions.  Since Im interested in sites, my natural competitiveness takes over, which is another reason why my sites will be fairly successful.... which boonex can help make even more possible by arming me with the weapons I need for online combat, primarily REAL TIME COMMENTS.  Real time updates/notifications is better than what we currently have for D Pro, but nothing will be superior to real time comments. 

i have a solution for you guys :p just put the shoutbox below the pictures, videos etc ;) I hope it would help with your live comments session without disturbing any thing :)

 There is already a shoutbox available, Im trying to get them to implement something that is not already available.  Besides, shoutbox can not let you embed anything, add pictures, use different font sizes, directly reply to someone, and a whole bunch of other things.  But if boonex doesnt take word from the wise, I may just have to consider doing such, lol

 RE:

 What you really want. is for DU to be customized  out of the box to your personal preferences.  It would be a mistake to assume other people want the same thing you do.  DU's notification of new comments and a manual load button, is a good method for most people.  What you describe is called a chat room... not comments. 

From what I know about DU comments so far, I'm reasonable sure it would only require a few simple modifications to get the comment system to suit your needs,  This is one of those cases where majority rules, and I just don't see the majority of DU users wanting a comment system that behaves like a chat room.

 This sounds as if you expect to compete with fb using boonex software____ That is a really really really absurd idea, in the least! In order to even attempt the slightest competition whatsoever you would have to forget any kind of software on the market and spend tens of millions of dollars and have a team develope exclusively for you, plus millions more on an extremely high tech server.

 Not customized just for me specifically, but real time comments is what most USERS are use to.  Its kind of like photo's and videos is a must have for majority of the sites.  Users are what makes a site, a site.  On most of the sites, the users are pretty young 18-mid 30's, and trying to get users from anywhere will require real time comments, especially if you plan to have a very active & busy site.  I would also guess that most of them do not even bother relying on doing things the "old way" (emails).  We're moving into the future, not the past, and we must keep that in mind, we dont have the luxury of ignoring that.  

Take a look at this person response to D8, this person is spot on.  The web and the users are changing, and we must adapt to survive, or just be another site/script somewhere lost in cyberspace.  We have to cater to these users, or they will find something else that will.

Now think of how they are designing DU, even you said "this doesn't look like something that would attract "professionals" or something to that effect, but DU has been optimized for tablets/mobile devices (because boonex were smart enough to recognize this is where the future is taking us) and honestly, DU looks like its intended for a younger generation, and with that must come real time comments (if anyone intends to have a very busy & active site with DU).  Keep in mind, Im not as smart as you HL, but I am a user, and I know how (most) of the other users thinks and what they like.

 Compete with fb? hahahaaa, I freaking wish.  Boonex isn't as technologically advanced to even begin to think of such, but I need something which I can work with for my site needs & my users, dont get me wrong though, real time comments is something I think everyone here will benefit from.  Boonex is just my starting base, at least 7.1 for now, and as D8 maturely evolves, it could end up as my upgrade path (especially if boonex continues to listen to input from its members and implement them)

RE:

and I know how (most) of the other users thinks and what they like.

That's quite amazing.  How long have you had this incredible power?

 Sorry, but there's no such thing as a brilliant comment system....  at least not  yet, and certainly not FB's comment system.  Hundreds or thousands of one or two word senseless comments arriving at blinding speeds, is not something I could label as brilliant under any circumstance.

A typical FB comment stream on a post might go something like this:

Yep
lol
Uh Huh
lol
awesome
lol
dood
lol
bummer
lol
duh
lol
whatever
lol
rofl

The future internet generation you speak of, is some of the most illiterate, inarticulate people on earth.   Why make it easier than ever for them to publicly display their stupidity?  Most of them have developed the entirety of their linguistic skills 140 characters at time, and use terms like gr8 and prolly.  It's maddening.  These people can barely form complete words, let alone complete sentences.  Come up with a comment system that requires these users to locate Canada or Mexico on a map  before they can post a comment, and then you may have a brilliant comment system.

 Maybe 6 years, and its growing even stronger, lol.  Im more of a user than dev/webmaster, and what makes sense to users doesn't make sense to devs, and vice versa.  Plus I have quite a bit of friends, and I always LISTEN to them, and we all pretty much want the same thing.  Im just not able to implement them myself, which is why Im begging boonex to do.  To catch a fox, you must think like one, isn't that the golden rule?

Btw HL, I forgot to thank you for your input when you said "from what you see so far, maybe I can achieve what Im after with a few modifications, that has given me a little more hope with D8/DU.  Thanks.

 RE

 That, I am fairly certain of.  Once you have in place, a notification that new content is available, it is not a huge leap to automatically use that notification to trigger the loading new content

 RE:

 I have very few. There are 70 people on my FB friends list.  The number is that small because I have the unusual requirement that I must have actually met them in real life to be even considered for my FB friends list. Add to that, the requirement that I must actually like them, and FB "Friends" material narrows down considerably.  I can honestly say, that I've had a beer with every single person on my FB friends list.  I've rejected quite a few requests. Odds are that if I didn't like you in High School and haven't contacted you in decades, I probably don't want to be your FB friend.  Furthermore, just because you liked my public FB comment, doesn't mean I want to be your FB friend, nor do I want to be your friend just because you know one of MY friends.  It's all quite ridiculous.

 ROFL, that really cracked me up, but you're focusing on the wrong thing HL.  When I said FB has a brilliant comment system, Im speaking in terms of how it doesn't jump around and distract users from what the user is reading when hundreds or thousands of comments are coming in at blinding speed.  That is whats brilliant about it. 

"A typical FB comment stream might go something like this:"
Users will be users, and webmasters have to accept that.  If you're wanting users to engage in deep intellectual stimulating & meaningful conversations, then you'd have to attract those kinds of users, but that will be a challenge in itself.  Regardless of how the FB comment stream is being used, with proper punctuation, grammar, extremely articulated & complete sentences, OR acronyms, slang, 2 or 3 worded  sentences, that shouldn't matter (it certainly doesn't matter to me) what matters is having a comment system that is capable of handling however it is used, brilliantly, and in course real time.  You have to cater to your users, that is the key.  Make them happy, and you'll have a live & happy site, which will make you a happy site owner.

Take Boonex for example, it says it has about 200k users.  Currently, they are working on DU, but lets take a memory trip.  1st, they ditched D6 for D7.  Then they jacked up prices 400%.  On top of that, they went "14 fucking months of no update" abandoning D7.1.  How many users out of 200k are here daily?  Its pretty fucking dead wouldn't you say?  How many users bought more licenses during the latest sale they ran?  

Now, lets say if they had've kept the price where it was at, pushing (major) updates every 90 days, we'd prolly (couldn't resist lol, but probably) would be at 7.4 or 7.5 by now, developers would still be making good sales, community would be in a hell of a lot better condition it is now, thriving and all sorts of new ideas would be suggested for boonex to implement to make Dolphin much better than the other scripts on the market, and Im 100% sure that during their latest sale, they would've generated at least 400% more revenue than what they have.  Users makes communities, its not the other way around.  Dolphin could be the best script ever, but if nobody uses it, its worthless.    

It would be nice if everyone on Facesucks, er, Facebook had these same requirements; it would greatly improve Facesucks but would cut down greatly the number of targeted adverts in the news feeds; which begs the question of why a bleeding advert is consider "news" on Facesucks.

While HL and I are normally at odds, I must say that he has made the correct assessment here.

 You know, I had to re-read your first 2 sentences twice, lol.  I found that very shocking that you actually have a FB at all.  I have thousands of fb friends (yes, I've met quite a bit of them).  I too am rejecting a lot of friend requests, I currently have about 500 people waiting for acceptance (haven't had time to accept them).  Perhaps I should've said "online" friends.   

"Furthermore, just because you liked my public FB comment, doesn't mean I want to be your FB friend, nor do I want to be your friend just because you know one of MY friends.  It's all quite ridiculous."
I understand HL.  I, on the other hand, am more social, and I intend to build a community with my real and online friends, which is why Im fairly certain my sites will do pretty well.  I do not have any seo, back links, ect., my site isn't even listed on yahoo, bing, maybe even google either, because Im taking an entirely different approach, thinking outside of the box.

Without anything, seo and the other usual tips & tricks webmasters use, all I've done (for testing purposes) was mention my site (only once), and 300 ppl signed up in less than a month.  When I get around to seo, and actually publishing content, that number will/should multiply very easy.  I've been debating whether or not I should document my progress here in the fun & foo section, but Im still unsure about that though. 

Pushing out update every month is not a good idea in my opinion, especially with Dolphin structure. 

I like the way Dolphin handles their updates now, once a year is the minimum because I build a site and leave it there to do other business (day job). I'm not sitting there to update my site constantly (if Boonex pushes out update constantly).  And the mod developers will also not be happy because they have to update their mods to work with new versions etc...

Don't fix something that's not broken, bro. but if you're bored and need something to do, then go ahead and update it yourself but don't drag us into your boredom. Thank you and have a nice day.

 Im not disputing that at all, all Im saying is that how the comment system is used is totally irrelevant.  The comment system needs to be able to handle whoever is inputting whatever into it, at blinding speeds and in real time.  That is all that Im saying.  I could care less if they can not tie their shoes, I only care about having an active community, and not a dead one.  I do not judge, or treat anyone any differently, as long as my users are happy, Im happy.  FB is extremely successful, does FB care that most of the comments are Yep, lol, Uh Huh, lol, awesome, lol, dood, lol, bummer?  Of course not, they only care about numbers, and the revenue generated from those numbers.

Some of these cars can do about 160mph.  How a driver drives is not the car manufacturer concern, if they drive 20mph, or speed at 75mph, the important thing is getting them from point A to B safely.  Its up to the drivers how they will use the vehicle.  That is my mentality when it comes to sites & users.  We do not have the luxury of having it both ways, I want a site full of these kinds of users...the key is acceptance.

 Not every month, I said about every 90 days, it could be every 120 days...just anything better than 14 months of no updates.

For those of us who wants to have the latest technology, it will be great, for those of us who are not prepared to update that frequently, at least the update will be there for when you are ready to update it.  "Dont fix something if it isn't broken?"  Where on earth did you derive that?  This post was about updating the comments to be in real time.  It can be made optional, just like the other hundreds of modules.  If you can use it, use it, if not, then dont enable it.  Whats so wrong with that?

I've jumped completely off topic, but this is the last thing Im going to offer, Food For Thought.

I was going to use Rade as an example, but I'll use myself instead.  There is a lot that I can't do with dolphin, Im dolphin illiterate, notice my sig? Ultra newb?  Does it matter to boonex that I can't run a sql query without a lot of help? NO!  Only thing that should matter to boonex is that Im on their site, and not their competitors.  Since Im a member, that means to them that Im a potential sale for their license(s).  With DU coming along, Im a potential sale for their product, a module or several modules.  That is the bottom line.  My language, race, education history, job history, number of children, whether or not I can install a module or dolphin itself shouldn't be in their scope of concern.

Now if some of the webmasters here wants a hobby site for "smart users", then great.  But for those who wants to make a living from our projects and convert users into potential revenue, everything else shouldn't matter.  Otherwise, our projects will be lost in cyberspace, with hardly no users or activity, just dead!      

My advice would be to learn how to develop and integrate into your own projects or employ a developer to meet your needs. I don't think it is any surprise you say you are more an end user than a developer as developers are usually looking to develop something new & original not implement what is already out there. Forgive my ignorance if I have it wrong but I was under the impression the idea behind Dolphin U was a box standard free version with basic functionality to be used as a springboard for developers own projects. Your requirements to me sounds like a module that needs to be created beyond that basic functionality of Dolphin U.

I agree both... employ a dev or learn how to develop copying makes the web cheap in my own opinion.. I remember we copy the old social "Friendster"  feats --> publicly display their connections to other and implement in clancircles.com well its a waste of time because Facebook came :)..

My advice make a difference and amaze the world...

 DU is pretty basic for the time being, but I do believe that it will evolve and be a full solution like D Pro.  Since its still in Alpha stages and they're putting a lot of time & work into it, even went as far as adding real time notifications, I figured it wouldn't hurt to beg once more for real time comments, the most that I suspect will happen is they may ignore me (again).  I do intend to learn more, but I also will be spending a great deal of time establishing my current project.  I do not want to miss the next wave because I put all of my time in learning & developing.  

 I will, and thanks.

lol

 Lol, I'll prove it, beyond reasonable doubt
I'll document some of it over in Fun & Foo, I'll try to update progress frequently. 

 RE:

 Let's give it a try. In order for you to get a better read on my thoughts, I'll hold my laptop up to my head.

Quick..... What am I thinking?

 As much as I'd like to give it a try HL, I wont be able to do that.  Reason being is because you're automatically excluded from "most" users.  For the record, I do find quite a bit of your thoughts fascinating & interesting though, the ones you've aired here.  To be a little more specific, I probably should've said most or at least half of my (existing & future) users.  That is what I intend to document as proof, because the progress that will/should be made will look like some sort of incredible power or magic, .      

This was an exception so I'll just call it luck in this instance, lol

 So you took a guess there, and assume you were correct? 

C'mon... what am I thinking?

 I know HL, I jumped the gun a little too early, I should have waited for a confirmation from the poster 1st.  It wont happen again

 I think that depends. On many sites the first comments (after 'First' etc) are the most useful and later comments suffer from topic drift. If the comments are a discussion then, again, one wants the oldest first. One can always choose to skip ahead to the end. I have to say though that I don't like it when the page starts bobbing up and down as new comments are added at the top of the thread. :(