Veterans and Questions

mydatery posted 5th of July 2009 in Community Voice. 18 comments.

Hello All, just a little note to vent out and remind you of how things work in the real world versus online and why when asked to work on a site we all do things a certain way now.

Like all the other veterans on Unity who stick around to help out the newbies, from time to time we get asked to work on a site for someone.  Myself, like all the others, depending on how were asked, the type of site and the type of person will with accept or decline this offer.  It often depends also on what you want done and how much time we have to devote to a new project.  I got one of these requests last week.

 

Now, the individual who was doing the asking seemed sincere and asked for 4 items to be done.  I gave him a reasonable price (it was under $50) and he agreed, saying he could pay the next day.  Well, I against my better experience and judgement went ahead and did the work.  By morning everything was done and he hits me with he needs a little more done and without thinking about it I give him a price for 2 larger items and begin to work on those.  With the first one done and the 2nd half done he sends me an e-mail filled with items that I have not agreed to do as if I am expected to do these items. 

Well, needless to say I put the brakes on his site real fast.  Keep in mind, none of these latest items were anywhere near being quick items, mods don't even exist for most of them, but they are doable.  So I give him a call and we discuss what is going on.  He denies agreeing to pay me for the first set of items, which I jogged his memory with a copy of the e-mail on and then says the latest list was just informational. 

I inquire about the money that was supposed to be paid and he attempted to evade the topic again.  By the end of the call he agrees to pay me and then disappears. 

Now, within this phone call he stated he had worked with 4 other people (this site appeared completely unmodified when I looked at it and we can all tell base dolphin sites) and how horrible all of them were.  Straight up, this set off the bells and lights in my mind.  If someone keeps having the same problem then it's a good idea to look at the common denominator which in this case was the client.  I don't believe we have this many (5 including myself) people who are willing to work on sites that one person could find all 5 of them and not find a decent one. 

Now, this also reminded me that in the past when I need something from someone else I have always paid for it first, and I have always had those I've charged pay me first in the past.  This time I was being nice and allowing leeway on the payment as there was a deadline when they wanted their site up. 

Now, for all of you who are new to Dolphin and wandering why this is being posted, it is a perfect example of why we all charge up front for the work that we do.  The majority of the people who participate in these forums are honest, hardworking individuals and we pride ourselves on making Dolphin simply as great as it can possibly be.  It is one of the most pliable pieces of software on the market and is limited only by our imaginations and Date of Birth Fields :))!  However, when we attempt to be nice to individuals we are more often than not finding ourselves accused of not doing what we said we would do, ripping people off or at best case simply not getting paid for the work that we do. 

This is the reason that most of us demand payment up front for our services and require things to be in writing in regards to what we are doing.  The next time that you think an idividual you want to work on your site is demanding things up front before they will begin to work, please keep this in mind.  We are not at anyones beck and call, we are professionals with other committments besides your site, we have families, we have normal jobs in addition to the freelance coding we do for you, we have obligations that we must meet and most of all, we do not work for free, we are not here to be insulted and we do not tolerate being taken advantage of. 

 

I'm done venting for now. 

 
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houstonlively
Nice one. I think you should post this person's user name here on unity, as well as the url of their site.
Footman
It's truly a shame that some people, on both sides of a business deal, can act like this. I've set up certain guidelines for my "day job" so I don't get the short end of the stick like you apparently just did. I try to make things as even as possible for all parties but in the end there's always someone out there that's trying to get around things.

True enough that sometimes it's just a case of mis-communication but more often than not it's someone trying to cheat.

I have a certain see more amount of 'ability' with sites but not nearly enough as most. Inevitably I'll need some help with some functionality with my site and will gladly pay for that help. Now from that point of view I'm concerned with finding someone who is reputable and can do what they say they can do.

Sorry you had a bad experience here. I hope it doesn't happen TOO often that it causes those of you out there who are willing to help others to stop.
CodeSatori
30-50% up front, unless it's an established customer with you. Minimum 10-20% up front if it's an established customer with someone else. Code demo on your server, full payment, delivery of code. Clear written agreement on project scope and situations that demand work beyond the scope. Can't go too wrong.
jlayson
Very good rules CodeSatori.
CodeSatori
No hard rules, but it's a good starting point if you sail in new waters.
DeeEmm
A contract - whether verbal or otherwise is a contract. This means it is an agreement that stands in law. If you have agreed terms then both parties have to abide by them.

It seem to me to be a perfect example, of the virtual reality many users think the web is.

Hope you didn't waste too much time.

DM.
mydatery
The good news is that the time wasted was small. The funniest part of all is one part I forgot to mention. When he sent me the e-mail listing items he wanted done, part of it was to modify the comments section to run from newest at the top and oldest at the bottom, remove the ratings from the comments and also disable permanently the anonymous comments by un-registered members.

So, I opened up my trusty FTP and Notepad++, pulled the corresponding files and made the changes. Verified all worked see more and then hit Notepad++ to return the files to original on my screen (note, I had not closed them and did not save to the server AFTER I ordered Notepad++ to return them to original status) and called him. I started off by showing him the updated comments section exactly as he wanted. Once he was thrilled I hit save on Notepad++ to cancel all changes out and returned them to default status. I then got into the conversation with him and let him know if he wants that then we need to talk and clear things up.

I guess he doesn't want it because he's not paying for any of the work I did. Oh well, it was only a few hours of time and in the end the user, who is oplugnz over on expertzzz.com (that's where he contacted me) is not getting the mods he so desperately wanted. I saw a question posted over here that was directly related to his site, let me see if I can find it and I'll give you the Unity login for him to!
mastermindsro
Well the same person told me he is broke (like real broke) and he needs to install dolphin on a website - preferably on a free host because he doesn't have even 5 bucks in his pocket :), I agreed to do this for free.. in the end i missed 3 days and he got a payed host and installed/moded his dolphin by some other user :)) isn't that sweet?
therock
Personally I always get a contract signed with layout of the terms in 3 to 4 pages, what my services include and what they don't and what I am responsible for, what I am not and my rates depending on what the job is and what is required for the job. One 3rd downpayment before any work gets started and then another 3rd to start the next stage and then the last 3rd before live. That way there is a mutual understanding between both parties.
mydatery
Here is a link to a forum question over on Expertzzz it appears he created another account to ask the question regarding his site. We can't have this many people right now trying to build this type of site. This is exactly the largest item this individual scammer wants done:

http://www.expertzzz.com/forumz/?action=goto&cat_id=1#action=goto&topic_id=18361

Different screenname, but the same exact mod and this is to much of a coincidence to be anyone else.
houstonlively
There are several posts in the forums discussing a strikingly similar mod. This has to be related somehow. Some of those folks in that thread had no sense of humor.... either that, or I need to sign up for sensitivity classes.
kosmic
mydatery a coder...dont make me laugh, you asked me what ftp was in september last year...when you joined Mr Veteran!

dont pretent to be someone your not, or theres always someone to expose the truth.
DosDawg
that was a stinger kosmic, but hey, if you jay walk you are bound to get run over at some point in your adventures.

mydatery, if this is the first and only time you get burned by somebody who asks you to do work on their site, consider yourself lucky. the approach i have been taking as of late, is that i get cpanel login or control panel login, wget the zipped site, mod it on one of my servers show it in a dev, ask for payment, no pay, no play.

there are many on this site and expertzzz that see more totally disagree with any of us charging anything at any time and it should all be free, well i for one do a ton of free work as my contribution to the site. and quite frankly i wouldnt do anything for somebody who need until tomorrow to pay.

at any rate, decent enough post, and dont fret that little bit of change.

Regards,
DosDawg
gameutopia
I guess you could technically call this modding, however it is rather basic, simple, and freely available in the forums as well as a number of sites, my own included. It really don't take much for this and I would just point them to a post, site or link and say here you go you can do it in 10 seconds yourself. Then again some people don't know the first thing about copy and paste, whether they are doing the right area or not. So I would assume some fee is in order. Afterall it does take time. Alot see more of what I see is really free info if people take the time to search and do a little homework, most of which isn't too difficult either. A job is a job though if they said they would pay you and then back out is a bummer. They asked for it, not you. Welcome to the world of dolphin. Home of the crooks, conartists, and anyone out to make a quick buck, or even get you to fix or mod their site for free. It never ceases to amaze me what I see here.

Expertzzz I haven't been to in a long time, but it used to be even more bogus things going on there.
ZopfWare
Just a thought... maybe Unity could have another classification of user. A user who has passed a "Unity" certification of sorts. I'm sure that we have some real coders and system administrators that could put together a test of technical knowledge. This would ensure that newbies and others needing quality assistance could receive it from truly knowledgeable people.

After all when I hire someone to work on my network equipment I insist that they be CISCO certified or can pass our in-house see more examination regarding their qualifications.

Again...just some musings on a way to resolve some of the BS that's been happening.
Faithful
Not sure if this is the right section but I decided to chime in voicing my opinion regarding mydatery. Listen hear boonex, this guy is the kind of people you need in the forums and even maybe working for you. I never met a mod let alone a user who has helped me on my site more than this hard ass:) and all for free. So if any of you have a problem with this guy, you should check the forums to see how many times he answers your troubleshooting. 2 thumbs up brother, thanks for all your help.....

Ps: see more If this guy has help you don't be shy saying "hear hear"
Oh that guy? He sent me an abusive e-mail the other day and I reported him to the moderators.
 
 
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