Reputation is a fickle thing

DeeEmm posted 10th of May 2009 in Community Voice. 15 comments.

Dissapointment

Well after upgrading to the new 6.1.5 version I've got to admit I am a little disappointed. One of the biggest gripes from many users was the licensing issues and the removal of the Boonex adverts and links. This seemed to be a reoccuring theme in the forums, and is one of the items that I expect many were assuming would be fixed with the new licensing.

With my newly updated version of 6.1.5 many of the Ray Widgets now have the Boonex logo and link in the title bar, this is not good.

I have also discovered that Ray presence seems to think that all of my contact are online, which they are not - Another bug! Comments in the forums also seem to point to there being more bugs as well.

Bugzzz

Fixing of existing bugs is pretty much an expectation with any patch, introduction of additional bugs is really not acceptable, this is why there are beta testing programs!! I assume that the 6.1.5 patch / update went through a beta testing process??? If not Boonex need to stop development on D7 and put a development plan in place with a managed bug tracker and managed beta testing program. Boonex.us is not a beta testing program as it is not managed.

As my previous comments state, Dolphin 7 really needs to live up to everyones expectations for it to be a success, this is especially pertinent with the new licensing as many people are already upset at missing out on a free upgrade.

If D7 is released with bugs such as those mentioned above then I expect that this will cause many to reconsider the use of Dolphin on their sites and cement the already common opinion that Dolphin products are buggy. It seems to me that people have already been through this with the 6.1.4 release, the long period taken to address the issues, and the lack of a decent support system. There was a very high expectation that 6.1.5 should be bug free, it is very unfortunate for Boonex that it isn't.

Support Issues

Boonex also need to consider that with the price restructuring there is also an expectation for an improved support system, and this has already been hinted at by unoboonex, and in my opinion should have been implemented along with the 6.1.5 release.

I am also of the opinion that all support should be here on this site - not at some other site. Expertzzz simply does not portray a very professional image - not only does it appear as a completely separate entity from Boonex (perhaps it is), but to me gives the impression of a warezzz / h@cker site - simply from the title alone! The impression that it gives me is one of a site run by a 14 year old who has bought a cool sounding domain - not the support site for an expensive,  commercial product. The level of support is also not professional - it is solely community based - there is not one expert on there. (This maybe a bit of an exaggeration but you get my point) Boonex, you should really consider dropping this site and any otherzzzz with a simlarly silly name.

Subdomains are free - use them!!! 

support.boonex.com

demo.boonex.com

d7.rc2.beta.boonex.com

plugins.boonex.com

whatever.boonex.com

They are all free!! They all appear 110% more professional than my-uncreative-domainzzz.com  and they all help towards the professional image that you are trying to portray.

Support Expectations

In my opinion, the promised improved support needs to be put in place now - this includes a decent and proper bug reporting system. Whilst community support is great, it really needs input from those who have written the software. The response times for support also needs to be addressed. Paying customers should really get help within a predefined period - not 30 minutes as others have suggested - but at the VERY minimum the same day.

I have always provided same day response for my own open source apps, including my CMS, and I do this on my own and for free, this is in addition to code development, managing a dozen websites and performing my normal full time day job.

Live chat is ideal but requires 24/7 manning. Another workable scenario is included support for licensees, say something like access to a dedicated support forum for 3 months - included for free with every 12 month license - this enables installers to get support for the installation and setup of the software - which is all most people need. Additionall access can then be purchased on an ongoing or as needed basis, this gives users the option of extending thier support or even employing a third party for any additional updates / modifications.

Dolphin 6.1.6

Another expectation is that the newly discovered bugs with the 6.1.5 release need to be fixed ASAP - In my opinion 6.1.6 should be out by the end of this week at the latest!!

Remember - this is a commercial application, not a free one and paying customers have certain expectations.

Reputations and Commerciality

All of these issues need fixing or D7 is simply going to be a huge flop, reputations are being made on how things are handled and releasing a bugfix update with bugs in it is amateurish at best - You can get away with this on a free open source app, but not one that is a commercial product, you need to get 6.1.6 out there to try and salvage some of your reputation before it is too late. I am sure that all of the comments relating to the 6.1.4 release and it's bugs are still in memory - don't let 6.1.5 be the same.

Recent blog posts have highlighted the general consensus relating to pricing and many are not happy - I myself am happy to pay for a commercial product - but after this recent 6.1.5 release I am now thinking twice - 6.1.5 is not of the standard expected of a commercial product at all.

My advice - again - make sure D7 is as near to perfect as can be, as the expectations are very high!!

And remember - Reputations take years to build, and only seconds to destroy!

DM.

 
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deano92964
Although I do agree with most of what you are saying, I have to point out a few assumptions that everyone seems to be making.

1) This paying customer crap. The product is FREE. What you are paying for is the right to remove the ads. Nothing More.

2) Product support. People seem to assume that technical support is expected when a licence is purchced. Again. Your buying the right to remove the ads, not a support contract.

This is a community product supported by the community. Boonex concentrates see more on a programming staff. The number of people buying licences to remove the ads even at the current prices surely is not enough to hire a support staff as well.

This is not Microsoft with millions of copies being sold. This is a small company with tens of thousands of copies being given away for free and being run for free.
i.agree...im.still.thinking.why.such.ideas.float...boonex.rocks
DeeEmm
I think it is a case of perception, and unfortunately, when dollars start to change hands, perceptions change. My take is that Boonex are trying to head towards a world class commercial product, not a free open source one. If this is not the case then my previous post is partly wrong.

That said - Dolphin is not a community product - it is developed by a closed house, Support is not really supplied by the community either - try using other open source apps or take part in the open source community see more a bit more and you will soon learn that Boonex is waaay behind the competition in the support stakes - free or otherwise.

I am a big contributor to the open source community, I utilise open source software at my business, with all of the products that I use and supply there is still an expectation of support. Support is what sets the open source community AHEAD of companies like Micro$oft - nothing to do with dollar value. Bug fixes are addressed AS SOON AS THEY OCCUR (nearly all Linux distro's update daily) these updates are supplied co-jointly by developers and the community. These are the things that make the open source community great.

Take Ubuntu for example. Their server distro is one of the most employed webservers out there. They have guaranteed support on 8.10 until 2012. And the cost - Nothing. They are fast becoming Micro$ofts biggest competitor and don't charge a bean for their products. Dell and others even supply their machines with Ubuntu pre-installed and the cost saving is passed on to the consumer. (Oddly enough you can also remove the server signature at no cost.)

I don't know why people keep comparing open source apps to Micro$oft, perhaps it is the only product people know. Ubuntu is every bit as complex as M$ Windoze and is free - try your Micro$oft comparison with Ubuntu or any of the other Linux distros and see if your argument still stands.

IMHO with the prices that are being charged it IS MOST DEFINITELY a commercial product, or at least trying to be one, if this is not the case then I retract my earlier statement about reasonable pricing.

To recap - I think that the pricing is reasonable for a PROFESSIONAL product - that is a product that has decent support, structured (bug free) releases and some kind of product lifecycle. These are my expectations.
deano92964
I only mentioned microsoft because they charge for their product.

I don't want to get into a argument over Linux distros. I have always prefered CentOS a Redhat Enterprise clone. Which Distro is most widely used in a server enviroment is another discussion.

But All of them still need funds to operate.

Redhat gets most of its funding by selling support contracts. CentOS and Ubuntu mostly from donations. Boonex from the sale of licenses to remove ads.

I guess your right, and dolphin is see more not a true community product as it is not developed by the community itself but i still don't see how they can be expected to provide the level of support people are expecting when most of the licenses are given away as free licenses. They just do not have the income level needed to provide a employed support staff.
Stuart038
I agree with you, Deano 100%

Boonex could do themselves a favour by distancing themselves from making 'mods' for their product. For me it says we will make this product and help ourselves to sell mods... Why else does D7 not have a efficient uploader like facebook et al?
houstonlively
What I would really like to see is D6 become the free version, and D7 become a paid commercial script with genuine support. I doubt that will ever happen though.

I am definitely a proponent of a support area for paying customers. There is no reason not to set up a support forum where only paid customers can post support questions.... let everyone be able to see the forum. To say that some 12 year old kid that downloads Dolphin and tries to get it to run on some piece of shit home computer, see more should get the same level of product support as someone who has paid $790 to use the product on a serious website, is an asinine statement of the first order. Maybe in Deano's world, paying customers are crap, but not in mine.

As it is now, the forums on this site are a joke, as far as any meaningful support is concerned. There is no way on earth, Boonex can staff enough people to answer every single question that is posted. Any legitimate support issues get buried in a sea of frivolous complaints, many of which could be resolved if people bothered to search for an answer before posting their support request that they demand be attended to immediately.

Most commercial scripts I have licensed, require me to pay a nominal annual fee, usually $30-$40, to be able to even access the support area. I would have no problem paying annual support fees to Boonex. If someone is using the free version and wants to access the support forum, let them pay the annual fee to do so. If you can't afford 30-40 bucks for annual support, you have no business trying to run a web site of any kind.

The pricing of Dolphin at $790 is a fair price, and I'm really sick of hearing that Boonex should sell it for $100. People sure get spoiled by free, open source scripts.
DeeEmm
Ok lets ignore the fact that Dolphin charge for licenses. Currently it appears that you download the software and that's it. If you get stuck there is no-one to help you. You are pretty much on your own. One or two other users may chime in to help, but the answer you will get is not definitive.

With any application support is necessary - Boonex don't even offer any paid support options - there simply is no support at all.

Support staff are easy enough to provide for free. Take the best 20 see more contributors in the forums (I'm talking about people who actually know what they are doing) - offer them a moderators hat and they will invariably step up to the oche, and donate time in their new found role. This is a trait of human nature - give someone a badge and they will act accordingly - Funnily enough there are already a number self appointed experts in the forums but the biggest problem is that they are not moderated or managed and so do not donate appropriate advice.

This is how most open source communities operate. Boonex have no appointed experts, and the developers do not frequent the forums. All of this = no support!

So even with a completely open source free application support is both required and expected. Start charging people substantial sums of money and expectations increase.
houstonlively
Some of the Boonex coders selling certain mods really strikes a nerve with me. For now, It's best for me to bite my tongue and shut up about it until D7 is released.

If certain features are missing, I will definitely go ballistic.
deano92964
I agree that at least seperating support into two groups, one for those who are running free and those who have paid might help.

But i still see a serious problem. Providing support to those that insist on trying to run this software on servers that don't meet the requirements.

The current forums are filled with it. Once dolphin is running on a server thats properly configured then the rest are bugs in most cases which can be dealt with.

So i guess one of the first things that has to be see more dealt with is ensuring it's installed on a properly configured server.

It's hard to provide support when you can't tell if the problem is the software or a faulty server setup. Perhaps some kind of test suite or dolphins installer with better testing.
DeeEmm
Sorry - I forgot that Dolphin requires a special server and that you have to be some kind of elitist to own a copy. Perhaps it should only be sold to people who have an IQ over 200? Deano - perhaps you should interview all prospective downloaders to ensure that they meet your standards. What next?? selective downloads based on race, colour or sex?? What a f@cking bigoted idiot.

Support is support - whoever you are. If you have paid for it then you should have it, and the same applies to free support see more as well. Remember - everyone is created equal!!

Deano, why don't you try helping those who have issues trying to install the software, irrespective of whether they have a special server or not. Community support is what makes open source work - only a few posts back you cited Dolphin as a community supported product, and yet you now see those in need of basic help as a 'serious problem'.

Open source is a two way thing - it is not all take, take, take - you have to redress the balance - you have to put back in, what you take out.

Part of the reason that the support sucks is because everyone seems to only want to take - everyone expects free software, with free licensing, without putting something back in, and many share your opinion and see those in need of help as some kind of problem.

Let me ask you this... Are you a formally educated software engineer? Probably not. So where did you learn all / most of the skills you now have? Probably the Internet! This means that people gave their time and knowledge for free to help you get to where you are now. Why would you not want to pass this favor on?

Just because you have now attained some knowledge of the product or the inner workings of php / sql etc is not a reason to cut off the support for all of those who do not possess a certain basic knowledge.

Now this may or may not be true of your situation, but the above scenario applies to over 90% of the users of this product.

If everyone tried to redress the balance by answering a post a week in the forums then within no time at all there would probably be a community worth talking about.
wildun
Yes, there's always the ones who have money and those that don't. You know what, I pay, but I would never take away from open source and it's commitment to all, not just the ones that have money. We ALL had to learn. I'm sorry but I agree with DeeEm. I usually confront my own script issues and try and fix them.. period. I also say the issue and what I had to do. This isn't a secret society and there are benefits to sharing knowledge. I ahven't been real vocal here to date because I am so busy.. this see more is changing :)
DeeEmm
Hats off to Boonex who have stepped up to the oche and are putting out a 6.1.6 release to address some of the missed bugs. This is an excellent response and the right decision.

Along with the free licenses that Boonex have been handing out, it would appear that Boonex are really shining. Keep it up guys. Kudos is high and your reputation is not only intact, but has been bolstered considerably - make sure you give your market strategist a bonus.

I would love to know what will happen to shape see more up the support issues - it now seems to be the last stone to turn.

DM.
sammie
DeeEmm
you are wrong in a lot of thing,
1/ dolphin has been open source for over 2 years, but the Ray Widgets are protected, until next week, when they will also be fully open source and the code released so that people can change it if they wish.

2/ Boonex do not only pay for staff from the sold licenses, over 500 people give between $100 and $2000 a year to support Boonex.

/3 your claim that it is closed to boones staff is also wrong, there are steps you must take if you want to be in the see more core development team, this is open to everyone.

/4 "Currently it appears that you download the software and that's it. If you get stuck there is no-one to help you. You are pretty much on your own. One or two other users may chime in to help, but the answer you will get is not definitive."

one or two might chime in? well i am sure a lot of people would resent that comment, a lot of us spent a lot of time helping others here,, i write some of the Documentation and post replies to many questions and my inbox is full with 1000's of people asking questions.

5/ Boonex does not get million dollar donations from java sun as linux does. so to try and compare boonex to others that have had 20 years of a head start is laughable. you have been a member for 56 days and think you know everything, you dont, and nor have you seen the changes made in the last 18 months and changes that are still continuing.

things are improving so give it time, or give boonex a million dollar donation
DeeEmm
Sammie, this is just a blog of my experience and opinions, it is not necessarily everyone's experience, but it is as I see it. I post here to give my opinion, both as a user (consumer) of the product, a businessman and as a professional software engineer of some 20 years. I give my opinion in the hope that it is of some value. My guess is that 90% is probably considered drivel and no one takes it seriously. It is just me waxing lyrical.

In response to your conveniently numbered list;

1/ I am see more not really sure why you have mentioned open source, please explain. I can only think that you are confused with the term open source. Open source means free as in freedom - not free as in beer. A product can be both open source and commercial.

Open source does also not necessarily mean completely free to modify - There are many different licenses. If Dolphin is truly free to modify then perhaps I should make a derivative work - One without any advertising. Perhaps I should undercut Boonex and sell it for only $395 a go? Hell, maybe I will even name it after you. :)


2/ Your point is...? I'm not really sure what this has to do with my argument.

3/ LOL - That IS closed house development - Development code is not available to the public, the public cannot submit code to the development program = Closed house.

4/ This is exactly what happened to me when I first asked questions about problems with my installation, I received no response at all. When I searched the forums what I mostly found were lots of posts that were subjective and not definitive answers - ie - They were not answers given by Boonex staff - They were mostly opinions given by other users, many of the posts were less than useful (yours mostly). The answer to my problem was relatively simple yet no one answered. It could have saved me a few hours work had someone taken a couple of minutes to help. Unfortunately no one chimed in.

5/ Perhaps you should re-read what has been posted, as it would appear that you do not understand.

It's funny that you feel threatened enough by my opinion to have to try to discredit me. It really isn't important that I have only been a member for only 56 days. Are you 100% sure I have not seen the changes over the past 18 months? only being a member for 56 days does not mean that I was literally born only 56 days ago. :)

Amusingly you see only that which you want to.

I am happy that you have created yourself a nice little online persona here, and it amuses me to see the nut swingers that hang from your every word. I am also sorry if you feel threatened by my opinion, but will confess that I don't particularly like the attitude that you show towards others in your answers, there is really no need for it.

I am happy to redress the balance if required.

DM.
 
 
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