Dolphin SEO - what a joke.

DeeEmm posted 14th of May 2010 in Community Voice. 19 comments.

Just got some press for my site in a magazine - great, can't wait for the hit's to come rolling in, it's always good to get free publicity - especially when it's from a national magazine.

EXCEPT...

Dolphin 7 Url's are different from Dolphin 6 Url's -huh?? WTF??

I just noticed that updating to Dolphin 7 has broken pretty much every single indexed link in my site.

Now. Instead of...

http://www.mysite.com/video/video-published-in-the-magazine

I have ...

http://www.mysite.com/m/video/video-published-in-the-magazine

WTF??? WHY?????????

This is absolute stupidity, and just reinforces how little Boonex know about SEO (apart from the very obvious fact that there are ZERO tools to help with SEO included with Dolphin).

I can understand that this new url structure fits in with the new 'modular' way of doing things ('m' is obviously for module - which is another joke altogether). But there is absolutely NO reason for changing this in this case. Whoever decided to completely revise the URL structure very obviously does not run a website of their own - and if they do - it's not one that ranks particularly highly.

I will actually go as far as to say that the coders are complete amateurs. Yes there are some nice coding hooks, but there is nothing cutting edge about Dolphin, and the more I look at it, dolphin is simply the crazed musings of someone who does not know what they are doing. changing the URL structure is a fundamental NO-NO. WTF are you thinking???

There are many considerations when updating something like Dolphin, and one of those considerations is data integrity - maintaining the existing sites data without too much disruption. I can understand that the new gallery features require a different way of processing the existing information, as galleries were not present in Dolphin 6, but if it absolutely HAS to be changed, the old data should still be supported with legacy features - such as retaining old links. Easy enough to do with some mod_rewrite rules, but in this case, not even considered  - it was not even on the developers radar - they are very obviously completely unaware of the implications of the change that they have made.

My site is not a particularly large site, but there are still nearly a thousand photos in it - that's a thousand links that are now broken - a big effin headache for a site that promotes free photo hosting - and this is not to mention the videos and the rest of the site.

I am now completely dismayed with the developers here, and I call you out to come and defend the decision to make this change - right here in this blog. But I mostly annoyed at myself - and the fact that I stupidly upgraded from D6 - a D6 where I fixed some 50/60 odd bugs so that the damn thing worked - my recommendation for those running a D6 site

DO NOT UPGRADE TO D7!!

It will break any rankings that you have built up, you will have to start again from scratch.

However, I really should not be surprised - it was only a blog post or two ago that I complained that D7 would eventually end up the same way as D6 when D8 rolls around - forgotten about, and unsupported. Well this further reinforces this view. Unfortunately, I do not think that this is done maliciously, it is done out of sheer stupidity.

/DM

 
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cbassthefish
Not going to upgrade my site to D7. I did too much work on the SEO which will not be transferable to D7. I do not fancy reworking it all. I would much prefer to start a fresh on a different webiste using D7 and leave my current D6 site to grow undisturbed. That said I am just waiting for D7 to become more stable before I put any amount of time into D7 website development.
DeeEmm
I too held off for quite a while. 7.0.1 seemed like a safer gamble for me, and I was was okay with the transfer to D7 - the migration missed quite a bit out that I had to manually transfer across - not sure why it wasn't included in the migration tool (half a job as usual with Boonex), but I tolerated this as overall it genuinely seemed to be better than D6. I tested the whole site out before going live and did not find any massive errors that would prevent me from wanting to use D7, but the URL's see more is something I simply overlooked.

I too put a lot of work into SEO with my D6 site - ranking no1 for many search query's related to the sites content, and on page one or two for many others - this obviously required modification to the code, and this was something I was prepared to have to redo for D7, but now I'm annoyed as for the most part my work over the past year has been a waste of time. I will have to start again from scratch.

The magazine article is also related to something I have been promoting for the past year - we finally get a mention and it's lost with an effin 404 error. To say i am pissed off is an understatement.

/DM
DeeEmm
Haha - double post - there's that intuitive interface again.

Like I said before.

Amateurs

/DM
cbassthefish
I know what you mean. I have double posted several times myself. I tend not to accept the invitation to edit my blog posts now just incase I make the same double post mistake. It is really easy to do.
houstonlively
Sometimes it's hard to tell if you're bragging or complaining.
cbassthefish
eehh, what does it matter...
buckmcgoo
Yeah, they have changed the whole structure of the links several times... I remember at one point they put out a warning (was it 6.0 to 6.1?) saying that upgrading might drop you out of Google. That time it was to add the permalinks, I kinda understood that one.. this one, not so much.
Andrew Boon
If you read instructions, we told everyone, that we have added rewrite rules to keep your old links intact.

Read this - http://www.boonex.com/trac/dolphin/wiki/6.1.6to7.0
gameutopia
This is actually one thing boonex did do a good job with. I haven't verified them all but they work good for me.

On:
http://www.boonex.com/trac/dolphin/wiki/6.1.6to7.0

You want to make sure you pay attention and understand this part:
IMPORTANT
To make sure you are not banned by search engines and save all old links from Dolphin 6.1.6, do the following:

Add these modrewrite rules to your .htaccess file:

Rewrite rules here
and here
and here
etc.

Everything there is what will rewrite see more your old d6.1 links to 7x and they are permanent redirects like 301's which mean if you have any rank already google will pass it along and forward it to your new 7x links.

Make sure you understand them, they are not the clearest instructions in the world for someone not familiar with how permanent redirects work.

They should be added in addition to the standard d7 .htaccess file (yoursite.com/.htaccess). You need both the standard .htaccess file in the download and these additional ones if upgrading.

If you are not upgrading from d6.1x then you don't have to worry about this.
DeeEmm
@HL - I'm just ranting - I generally try to be polite though. :)

@Andrew - fixing the issue is not a problem - once I discovered it I added a bunch of rules to take care of it - The issue is that this simply should not happen in the first place. If you know that you are changing this - include the rewrite rules as part of the upgrade, not as some additional hack hidden in the depths of your documentation.

This kind of stuff is what I previously blogged about - public perception - how your user-base see more perceive you. By doing stuff like this, you open yourselves up to criticism, and in this case I think that it is justly deserved.

I think that the whole migration package is about 50% of the job that should have been done. IMHO it simply is not good enough. All of the missing data fields could have easily been transferred, and this issue with url's changing should not even be a problem.

I know that I've barked on about my expectations from Dolphin previously with version 6, and there were those who said that my expectations were too high and vehemently defended Dolphin. But I am sorry - this stuff is not an interpretation of how something like a checkbox should function - this stuff is fundamental to how the web operates.

/DM
gameutopia
The importance of these redirects if upgrading should be pointed out more. Most average joe's will not get it or understand it. They are there for everyone to see but they are not exactly detailed. Same with features, modules, whatever. They slap them up there and you figure it out. Some need a little direction while others are familiar with it. Guess we can't say they didn't tell us even though they are not the clearest.
DeeEmm
@ HL - sorry I misread what you posted - thought you said 'begging' - lol

Nope - I'm not bragging - I have nothing to brag about. I'm not promoting myself here, It's just that I look at what goes on, and how things are handled and it frustrates the heck outta me. Dolphin has the potential to be a good product, but it is so poorly handled, in every aspect. Every turn, there are even more silly mistakes being made - take sooperstars and webhome for instance - a bad judgement call IMHO - especially see more when you consider the current state of Dolphin. Even if involvement is minimal in these other projects, the last thing that Boonex should be doing is throwing it back in peoples faces, it's almost insulting. $200k is not minimal IMHO - and if $200k IS a minimal amount, then Boonex really have no excuses not to hire some decent devs and get Dolphin finished off properly. I was under the impression that Dolphin was unpaid / minimally paid work for the devs - hence the reason that it was poorly resourced and way behind schedule. Now it seems that profits are being redirected to finance projects outside of the Dolphin stable - a kick in the teeth to anyone who has paid for a license.

I will continue to come here and make noise about this stuff until it either gets addressed, I get frustrated enough to throw in the towel, or Boonex decided to censor me. But, It's only my opinion, and Boonex can either take it or leave it, as will everyone else who reads it - No doubt I will also be judged accordingly.

I only hope that it raises awareness, and if not - at least makes people pause for thought. If it achieves this much, it is worth the time taken to type it.

/DM
DeeEmm
@gameutopia - my point exactly - the average Joe does not expect to have to do this kind of stuff - they are probably completely unaware of it.

Sorry Andrew - I disagree with the fact that we were told about the URL's - the link to the instructions you have quoted are not those linked to in your official blog announcing the 7.0.1 release and containing the download links.

Your Blog entitled - 'Dolphin 7.0.1. Released.'
http://www.boonex.com/unity/blog/entry/Dolphin_7_0_Hookie_Patch_1

Instructions see more linked from this blog - 'Upgrade Instructions from 7.0.0-to-7.0.1'
http://www.boonex.com/trac/dolphin/wiki/7.0.0-7.0.1

No mention at all about URL's changing, or additional fixes supplied to address any SEO issues

Sorry mate - another EPIC FAIL for you.

/DM
AlexT
@DeeEmm

pointless, no sense ! Just stop discourage other users with such posts !

The facts are:
- Urls were not changed from 7.0.0 to 7.0.1
- Urls were changed from 6.1.6 to 7.0.0(7.0.1), redirects rules for rewrite are in the official upgrade instructions with the header IMPORTANT - can not imagine how it is possible to upgrade without this instructions! as the result it is impossible to miss this information during upgrade !
DeeEmm
@ Alex. Not pointless at all. The point is, that it is within your power and capabilities, to do it properly, but instead you do only half a job.

The URL fix should all be part of the installer / migration script - as should the missing database tables that are not transferred...

* Links are not converted to Sites
* Photo and video view counts are not transferred
* Tags are not transferred correctly
* Quotes not transferred
* FAQ / About / Privacy pages not transferred
see more * Additional user created pages not transferred
* Subscribers not transferred
* Old mass mailer emails not transferred
* Probably some other stuff too.

In my line of work there is a saying - 'you're only as good as the last job you did'.

There is also another - 'failure is not an option'.

Want to know why?

Imagine having a fixed date in time - the date that the oil well has to start producing oil, or the date that the car plant has to produce cars, or the date that the food plant, or chemical plant, or distribution facility, or mine or whatever has to start.

Imagine that they are all dependent on YOU designing, writing, testing, installing and commissioning a piece of software.

Now imagine that each one of these companies back-charge you for loss of production because YOUR code does not work, as it is only half done, and is full of bugs. In the case of the oil companies this can be very expensive indeed - so much so that one days delay is usually enough to bankrupt most companies.

Welcome to the word of REAL software engineers.

Alex. I will stop complaining when there is nothing to complain about. But until then - you re only as good as the last job you did.

/DM
DeeEmm
Visited a site that links to a lot of content on my site and noticed that there were still quite a lot of broken links, so thought I would take a look at the rewrite rules given by Alex as part of the upgrade instructions.

Guess what - (I'm not even going to say it)

Direct links to media such as /media/images/sharingImages/123.jpg are not re-written at all, and the fact that media files are relocated to /modules/boonex/photos/data/files instead of remaining in the media folder (which ironically see more still exists within D7) means that the old links are completely broken.

Where in your instructions does it tell how to fix this?

I feel like I am banging my head against a wall.

I still stand by my recommendation...

Do not upgrade.

/DM
DeeEmm
After looking at this issue - I do not think it is not possible to fix within mod_rewrite.

Direct links to images in D6 are like this

http://dolphin6.deeemm.com/media/images/sharingImages/1.jpg

But in D7 they are like this

http://dolphin7.deeemm.com/m/photos/get_image/original/60e8b216aad9d33ac6889f2872918ab4.jpg

Images are now stored here in D7

/modules/boonex/photos/data/files

* There is no rewrite rule in above upgrade instructions to rewrite the image URL.
* Additionally
see more * All images were moved from /media/images/ to /modules/boonex/photos/data/files
* All images were renamed as part of this move
* Therefore - it is not even possible to write a rule to take care of this issue.

I don't think I need say any more.

/DM
tomakali
@DM No answers yet? for your screaming?
hmm... Then you have the POINT
 
 
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