Copying, imitation, re-selling, leeching and copyright violation.

Andrew Boon posted 10th of March 2010 in . 24 comments.

Ok, we have quite a debate every time somebody is trying to either resell another's products, or their modified versions, or otherwise. Concerned "owners" are raising the alarm and "requesting" (not very politely, normally) us to take action and protect their copyrights. So, here's our position:

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First and foremost - we are NOT a copyright enforcement agency, court or legal authority. We have no right or resources to identify the legitimacy of any copyright ownership claims. Hence, if you believe that your work was stolen and is being unrightfully distributed by somebody - go ahead and protect yourself. BoonEx is not a participating party here. We provide advertising, publishing and a communication platform only.

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Second - we do have the right to remove things from Unity and establish our own rules. We realize that copies and stolen stuff brings no good to the community. So, at our own discretion we may or may not delete items that look dodgy, BUT until there's a cease and desist ORDER (not letter) - we don't have to. Which means, that if you want to have your rights protected you may request, but not stipulate or dictate, your request for us to take action.

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Third -  it is my personal belief that a "virtual" product, like software is not that much of a value by itself, but more important by the people that stand behind it, in the form of support, further development, security and peace of mind. So, I think that if your work is stolen, you're not in big trouble - there's almost no chance that the thief would be a success. We've had our stuff  stolen numerous times, we used to go crazy about it, but now it has all turned out to be a waste of time - leeches just perish by themselves.

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Fourth - very often people are confused about their rights. For example, the graphic design of a page is very hard to patent, because it's a highly reused combination of very generic pieces and it's almost impossible to define "distinctive features". This is often true about code as well. And, trust me, we all benefit from that "anarchy". You don't want to be locked out from the making of "blue tabs as navigation at the top of a page", right? We see lots of mods that are a quick re-package of somebody else's products, often open-source, or license-protected. Do you think we can really examine everything and protect you? Like I say, we can't really tell if a "friends inviter" was written from scratch or was built upon a commercial product. We will, however, collaborate with a vendor if they file a protest and support it with evidence.

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All in all, the idea is:

- we try to help, but we don't promise help;

- you may patent your work or you can protect it by building a reputation, which sells as part of the package;

- we don't spend much time talking about this, and we don't jump on forum discussions about this, because it doesn't go anywhere, and we'd rather code.

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"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"

Charles Caleb Colt

 
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I can understand completely your situation regarding this issue. It is more or less left to the community to "police" themselves,. and this is where these blogs are helpful. All opinions aside (and mine are well known about this issue) it's more of a MORAL issue among many of us, and I suppose that's what brings out the vitriol in some of our posts.
UFO360
rippers are lassy people
making easy money from other people hard work!
mydatery
So Andrew, does this mean we can all go take [EDITED OUT BY ADMIN]'s stuff and start relisting it ourselves? This is a bullshit response to say the least. I see alot of your free support venues walkin' due to this position your taking.
Andrew Boon
I'm not supposed to tell you what to do, it's your choice. I was saying that you can't demand any action from us, but there may be some action.
wolf2217
Everybody who develops modules for any site including Dolphin can expect it to be given away, modified and or resold as their own.
This should be something all developers should be aware of before posting them on the web for sale.
mydatery
To a point your right wolf, but Boonex should not provide the venue for that to happen and they definitely should not condone it. [EDITED OUT BY ADMIN]
CodeSatori
It's a question of the base ethics of providing a platform; not about the legalese and the loopholes you can refer to and weasel out of it. If you provide a platform on which there's a clear and recurring pattern of abuse, and if you don't do anything about it, it begs the question, "Why did you do it to begin with?" Was it your intention to just put up something and let everyone run wild? While I have sympathy for the issues you face in dealing with situations like this, the approach doesn't see more came across to me as responsible, mature or proactive.

Given the amount of shady business going on on the internet, if you aren't willing to deal with keeping it straight and protecting those who really invest their time and effort into it, perhaps you shouldn't do it to begin with. That'd save you from all the trouble of dealing with complaints, whether from original authors or scammers and plagiarists who were shut down. I have grown to be disgusted by plagiarism over the years, and I've seen it on too many markets and in too many contexts, as well as been in the suffering end too many times, to have any sympathy whatsoever to anything that actively supports profiteering by copying the work of hard-working people, often indie developers who may actually *depend* on this for their livelihood.
CodeSatori
I also wish to note that all the lofty philosophies behind Unity have just suffered a massive inflation in my world (and I remember I've read through them more than once with appreciation); they now come across as hollow words and lip-service to something good, more than an actual sincere and earnest effort to do as your mission statement proclaims:

*** BoonEx is all about uniting people.
*** We want people to collaborate in reaching global and personal goals.
*** We believe that the entire see more world can be turned into a compassionate, humane and caring community.
*** --> http://www.boonex.com/about/

What's happening here these days comes across in many ways as the polar opposite of the above, and I think we all deserve to know where you stand on your agenda vis-a-vis your customers and your general attitudes. (And if you think nobody deserves to know it, or that you are free to not follow your own mission statements and ideals, or justify your actions before your customers, then let's be up front about all that too.)
Andrew Boon
Perhaps the overall tone of the post confused you, but we are not trying to just "let it go" here. We keep receiving demands and threats however, and sometimes from two sides of the dispute. So, I wanted to say that we have no authority to decide, but we definitely WILL whatever we can to keep this place clean. This means that we may be wrong, but we have no obligation to be right when picking what to leave and what to remove here.

We don't forget about our ideals, mind you, and I can see more see how many people here actually share them. Some people are here for quick buck, but do you think the distinction is just obvious?

Anyway, we have had rules set a while ago, so watch me cleaning the place up.
wolf2217
People use 3rd party software to build their modules, some people build them from the ground up.
It would be hard for one to determine if it's someone else code that's been restructured or not, therefore you can't do a heck of alot to protect it.
I could take someone elses mod, structure parts of it and claim it as mine and the original developer could claim it as their own...how can you tell it belongs to one person.
mastermindsro
@wolf [edited out by Andrew Boon]
Have anyone heard about "Envato Marketplace"? Take that as an example of file filtering/approving system.. [edited out by Andrew Boon]
[edited out by Andrew Boon]

Remember Me?
Andrew Boon
No.

(and will ban you if you keep trolling)
DosDawg
the answer for all of this is that if you were to encrypt your work binding your work to the purchasers domain and or IP or both. then it would not be usuable nor transferable.

If you are interested in this solution as a mod developer you can get in touch with me. I have for nearly two years addressed this to some of the more well known developers. this has been a huge deal for years, not only with dolphin, but with all software. the key to this is encryption using one or two of the encryption see more facilities that are available

ioncube

that is one that i can think of now, that i utilize on all my servers.

also if you have been ripped off for your works, you can use legal zoom to file the proper papers and these copyright registrations specifically under GPL or any of the other open source encrypted or not, are taken very seriously in the US.

Regards,
DosDawg
Andrew Boon
May be a good idea for popular products.
tomakali
Simple solution which may not happen...

http://www.boonex.com/unity/blog/entry/Is_Trident_ready_for_Mobile_Platform_
Point 5

4.Separate Developer/Support/Agent team from Boonex for Trident

5.No External Freelance Developers

-> Post requirement to boonex

-> Boonex Hires Unity Freelancers

-> Test/release to Mods Market

-> Any admin can buy from there
gameutopia
Digital content is a tough one, which varies widely from country to country. Many countries have no copyright rules at all anything goes basically. Plagarism nothing will happen, nobody gives a squat everything is copied all day long everyday. Some rss feeds are automatically copied and reposted all the time, google youtube same thing. Most of those people don't have permission to create let alone repost them. Copy all day long nobody cares and very few will do squat without a patent or copyright see more license. Copy this is that illegal.

Dolphin's mp3/music feature is a major copyright issue if you want to talk about copyrights. It is basically saying hey it's alright to upload music and let everyone on the internet download it. If you live in any country with copyright laws that are enforced and you upload a music/mp3 you are asking for trouble. It is funny boonex being in australia with copyright laws as far as I know of still promotes this module or feature. Here in the u.s. one uploaded music file that is copyrighted is a big time fine. So I really think the music module is useless in modern copyrighted abiding countries. Videos and video modules will soon follow as the internet gets faster and storage increases. Video companies will be the next to start sueing and complaing. It's just a matter of time. It will happen.
Andrew Boon
We provide software, and we don't promote copyright violation. Your copy of Windows is just as much a platform for facilitating such violation as Dolphin Music Player. By default, we suggest that only content owned by poster should be posted, everything else is up to the webmaster.
gameutopia
I am not one to promote copyright, imatation or reselling, but if you think you find a few here on this site it's a fraction of what is out there. Every night I get automated emails from google related to dolphin with tons of hacked dolphin and free mods. I have very vague dolphin terms that I get alerts for, I'm not even looking for these things, just terms like boonex dolphin and I get tons of dolphin hacked/nulled links, as well as 100+ paid mods for free to my email every night. They are all see more over the internet. If you are concerned about this site, have a look around it's everywhere. It's not just dolphin, it's everything you can think of. Welcome to the wonderful world of digital technology that nobody can live without. Do the benefits outweigh the negative? Good question. We just have to live with it and make do I guess. Protect what we can. Much more could be protected than what I see floating around. Some can not, but what do you do. Who know's what the perfect answer or solution is.
Andrew Boon
Well, like I said before we had our stuff stolen a number of times. Turns out that the best thing to do is to keep working pay no attention. Whatever starts with a crummy intent stays at the very bottom forever.
CodeSatori
* Perhaps the overall tone of the post confused you, but we are not trying to just "let it go" here. *

Alright, thank you for the clarification Andrew. Clear communication is the heart of sanity; and Unity seems to be proving this time and again (both ways).


* So, I wanted to say that we have no authority to decide, but we definitely WILL whatever we can to keep this place clean. *

I don't think you need to worry about *legal authority*; it's a platform you provide, and the rules see more are yours to make. You are the gods of your own domain, and can exercise absolute power over it (within the boundaries of law); you will receive the adoration of the masses to the extent you come across as benevolent in general, as well as willing to provide divine intervention at times of turmoil. When the masses begin to see their gods as evil, indifferent, or incapable of good judgment, their faith will break and change. How's that for a parable.


* This means that we may be wrong, but we have no obligation to be right when picking what to leave and what to remove here. *

Of course not; my sister used to say as a kid that the only real obligations are to be born and to die.

Still, at least in my view, it's better to err on the side of caution in favor of the person who better demonstrates original authorship, rather than in favor of the person who is under suspicion, if the intention is to encourage actual quality development surrounding Boonex products by independent web developers.
CodeSatori
* We don't forget about our ideals, mind you, and I can see how many people here actually share them. Some people are here for quick buck, but do you think the distinction is just obvious? *

What's obvious in this world... It's all in the eye of the beholder; the more clarity you have, the more obvious everything becomes, and the more we walk in the fog, the more obfuscated everything seems. Clarity comes from information. Then, the better an infrastructure you have for acquiring that information see more at times of confusion, the more successful your attempts at resolving issues will be.

If I were in your shoes, I would look at setting up a clear process of mediation and drafting up standard forms you can mail out to parties in dispute, tailored so as to make it easy for you to judge who's playing fishy just by looking at and comparing the sheets you receive. I can't imagine this'd take too much of your time, at least not in comparison to the time you seem to have to spend going back and forth with the parties in dispute as it is. Just set up your own unequivocal internal system of justice, a clear due process of your own, and make it a rule of your Market to have all sellers agree to your method of dispute resolution. That would coincidentally also make scammers think twice before they do what they do.

Just to put my money where my mouth is, I'm open to looking at dispute situations within the limits of my busy schedule, and sketching notes on means by which shady scammers could easily be ousted from their caves and brought to clear daylight. (I have incidentally done my fair share of mediation and dispute resolution in diverse contexts over the years.)
CodeSatori
And that comments load error keeps happening... *Error 28* is "No space left on the device". My guess is you have some temporary tables being built and taken down, and that's why it happens occasionally. You must be close to hitting limits on your server.

In case the developers want to debug it, here's the screenshot of what just happened: http://codesatori.com/hosted/unity_comments_error.png
danielmarseille
Last night I added my first (post - market) - - why there is a reports

http://www.boonex.com/unity/extensions/entry/Share_button_facebook_myspace_blogger_delicious_twitter_wordpress
 
 
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