Dolphin 8

I am guessing version 8 has been put on hold in order to improve features in 7?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAAA!

I'm so glad that there are still people out there who can make laugh...

The features of Dolphin 8, where possible, should be rolled into Dolphin 7.  According to the roadmap, Dolphin 8 is only 39% complete.  If you search enough, you will find where we are suppose to be using Dolphin 8 now instead of Dolphin 7.1.4; I am just too tired at the moment to go hunt it up.

I'm not lying to you, if Dolphin 8 is not responsive natively using the latest version of Bootstrap then I don't want to see it. I'm just being honest. I like when software and technology is up to date with the latest trends.

 re

 Good idea. Let's abandon the current framework and start from scratch. Look for D8 in about 5 years. Of course by then, there will be a new uber cool bootstrap plus... or jockstrap plus, to latch onto.

what would be the problem with just using a responsive template?

 Some of the responsive templates just are not good enough as I think HL was trying to point out in another thread before ...

 re

 I have to wait for 7.1.5 to be released before I can finish the mobile template I was working on, because there's no way to change certain hard coded layouts without altering original source code. I asked for a few simple changes that AlexT agreed to, but at the pace D 7.1.5 is progressing, hell knows when it will be ready.

What I was working on was NOT a responsive template. It was a separate mobile template that will be used when a mobile browser is detected.

 I would love to see how you tackle this :D

 RE:

 It's nothing complicated.  It will require a few lines of code in each of your sites BxTemplConfig.php files that detects a mobile  browser user agent string then switches to a template designed only for mobile browsers.

The widths of the Outline items are determined dynamically by js called from a wall module class, which makes it impossible to override without altering original source files.  I asked AlexT to move that js to the wall module template html files so that it's easy to override without altering original source files.... that's why I decided to wait for the changes to appear in 7.1.5  I'm not going to put something out where people have to alter source files. This is far from finished, but will give you an idea where I'm going with it: http://houstonlively.com/?skin=mobile2

D8 is in fact natively responsive. Without using Bootstrap.

Personally, I don't see how presenting very different layouts on different devices is a good idea. 

 I can't believe you said that. Do you actually believe a layout on a 17 inch screen will be OK on a 4 inch mobile phone screen? By that logic, there is no need for the boonex mobile app.

 Yes it's responsive! Yes! This makes a big difference. It really does! This will make it a mobile powerhouse. Especially with the user pages built in.

 Andrew, can you elaborate more on how or why you don't see how different layouts on different devices being a good idea?

 Other thing I'd like to know is, will D8 (or even some of the 7.1.x, 7.2's, ect.,) have any REAL TIME COMMENTS and NOTIFICATIONS?   

Andrew, i am amfraid you unleashed something here...
I hope you mean that in the near furture the standard will be all responsive and not just a smaller version of the 17 inch screen. I know why you wanna keep it the way it is... otherwise the mobile app is not a major $$ anymore.

Get real... The tablets and smartphones are used by young people under 30 more and some of them don't even own a normal PC anymore. Don't stick by the old and come up with something that belongs in the future but i am ok with present!

I need another bowl of popcorn...brb

HL, I can't believe he said it either.  That is exactly what you want to do, serve up a page tailored to the device.

Most of them wouldn't know how to use it anyway.  Ask them how do you find the standard deviation, if they even understand the term, and they will answer, "I push this button here."  Plus, they don't deliver any content worth anything so maybe building a site that excludes them is a good thing .

People under 30 are smart. My users know what responsive is. Over 80% visit my site is on their Android. Then it's Windows Phone and Iphone. Desktop is last. Desktop sales are rapidly declining. My users come from the United States, China, Japan, Europe. On my Android, sites that use Bootstrap look better vs. those that don't. It was made by a multibillion dollar company, Twitter, and is completely free for anyone to use, so why not use it? I makes it easier for developers to make modern, high quality templates and it makes it easier for the site owner to make changes. It is well documented and has millions of sites using it. 

 Sorry, but people under 30 in the US are for the most part, fcking idiots. Recent general elections, and things like that occupy movement are solid proof. Many of them have developed the entirety of their linguistic skills in a chat room, and use terms like 'coz' and 'prolly'. Without a calculator, they couldn't do basic math. Without the aid of google, many couldn't find Canada on a map. Some couldn't find their ass if it had a bell on it.

If these people are not buying desktops, there is probably a good reason... you need a real job to be able to afford one. One thing I am certain of, is that those Androids and booststrap that you are so mesmerized by, were developed on desktops by professional people over 30. 

I think my reply disappeared 

 Good.. it probably had something to do with twitter jockstrap... or whatever.

I don't know I just don't think people should be considered stupid because they are younger.

I didn't mean to offend anyone. It's done.

"should be" ? lol

HL logic FTW

Elaborating...

My wife, for example, is an avid Facebook user. She is often posting/reading via Desktop, iPad and iPhone, depending on what's at hand. Every so often I hear complaints on how "stupid" Facebook doesn't have a certain function/check/setting/link in a recognisably-same place (or at all) on ALL of their incarnations. For example, a user is familiar with clicking a "Share" link in the Desktop version. On their iPhone they're getting an [arrow] icon instead, which they may not necessarily recognise. It gets worse when, for example, there're visible comments to a Photo on desktop, but they're altogether hidden in iPhone. inconsistencies add up, adding to frustration, unless you use on one type of device all the time. And we're talking about Facebook - with their billions of dollars and hordes of super-star engineers 'tailoring' experiences day in and day out. 

Next up, we're now seeing appearance of whole array of devices with screens starting from 3in and all the way up to retina/4k 30in or more. They're not even properly grouped anymore - there're feature-phones, smartphones, phablets, tablets, handheld-pcx, netbooks, ultra books, laptops, desktops, tv-screens, etc. There're also different OSs with different conventions... like, say, iOS users may have no idea that 3 vertical dots mean a "menu". Go figure!

Bootstrap our saviour? Not really. BS automatically scales your site layout to suit observer's device. Scaling is not very straightforward and predictable though. It's not just making making fonts and photos smaller (this job is now nicely done by mobile browsers anyway) - it tries to be smart, changing elements to something that it thinks may be a better fit for a device. It also repositions things. Thus, a tabbed menu may appear as a menu icon with drop-down or pop-up. Or, photos may appear small but in one row, or large, but in one column. That sounds really cool, from web-master's perspective. For developer, however, this means yet another framework layer to account for. For designer - more visual states to consider. Most importantly, for the end user, this introduces unexpected UI disruptions. Here's why...

From "Don't make me think" by Steve Krug ... 

We don’t figure out how things work.
We muddle through.

Users don't think about constructs of your site. They don't know how frameworks, browsers and OSs work and why the site may look very different on another device. They just quickly find their way to whatever it is they need to do and almost inevitably repeat the same very use-path that worked for them the first time. Even, if there's a more obvious and simple way. 

Now, some things still need to be adjusted when different screens are used. It just has to be done in a way that wouldn't make users think "oh, this iPhone, so probably main menu disappeared and turned into an icon. Or, "or, this is a Tablet, so perhaps the two link that used to be on the right side are now joined up with the main menu"... etc. Adjustments have to be really subtle, and the desktop experience must be designed in way that can be scaled down in a more linear and obvious way. This is something designers/developers have to think about. We need to create for ALL screens/OSs/devices. Not just for couple of categories. Certainly not for some middleman-framework that applies its own arbitrary conclusions to reconstruct your vision. 

D8 is natively responsive. No Bootstrap post-processing trickery. It is designed to make users feel at home whatever device they use, with same functionality every time. It's not the old one-size-fits-all way and not the Bootstrap's new-way-new-size-for-every-device hack. It is more of a "one-right-way-fits-all" method. 

Ok. Sounds good.

I hope and wish D8 come out before the year over.

 2014 !!!

Unless the trac is off, it is only 39% complete; if that is true, then there is no way it would be released by the end of the year.  There are still issues to work out with Dolphin 7.1

I've read exactly what Andrew is talking about in more than one web design publication recently.

Users get easily confused and frustrated when everything is not the same on each device. Even big sites like Facebook haven't nailed it down yet.

 I have read articles that state if the icons in a toolbar are changed in order, it confuses people.  Every time MicroCrap comes out with a new version of Office, companies have to have a training sessions for their employees.

I totally agree with Dr. Boon. 

I myself find it very frustrating when viewing my school website on a mobile device, because all the buttons, menus that I got used to were gone, I have to look very hard to get the stuff I wanted to view. 

Responsive is good for just news site, where people just come in to read daily news or all the bullshit articles etc...

An App for Dolphin is another story, a real App for Android, Windows, and iOS should get alot more mobile traffic.

 OK, I have to know.. Why do you call everyone "Dr."? I've see you use it before Houston's, Nathan's and now Andrew's name..

 re

 With me, it's an honorary salutation that he came up with. I'm very appreciative.

You're just jealous. 

 Or maybe...just maybe....version 8 has been put on hold in order to improve features in D9

 They do love to take their sweet precious time, so I highly doubt the trac is off.  Im also quite sure that it will not be released by the end of the year either, because Im guessing 7.1.6 wont be released before the year is out either.  

How long have we been waiting on 7.1.5? 

Patience is a virtue Dr. 

I am hoping I will get to upgrade my site to 7.1.4 before 7.1.5 is out

What are you waiting on girlfriend!? Get busy

It is heavily modified by both me and third party modules.  I have installed 7.1.2 on the test site and things are broken; so I am having to see what and why and roll them back into the upgrade module.  I need to devote more time to the task but time is hard to come by lately.

Plus, it is also a bit of the carpenter not fixing her own house LOL

Ah...I see. Understood. Customizations does usually throw a wrench in the situation. I have a few things myself modified but making sure I keep consistent backups of coding so I can play around.

Trac for D8 is irrelevant right now. We've been working on D8 in a private repo at Github for about a year now. Had to be done this way, since D8 is being designed to solve some of the most fundamental issues all web-platform developers currently face (such as upgrades of modified versions, seamless extensibility and some others) and solutions we come up with make for a significant comparative advantage - not something to be publicly available too early on.

Mr. Boon, what do you see as happening with the 7.1 versions of Dolphin when 8 is released?  Do you see discontinuing the 7.1 line and switching completely to just developing Dolphin 8?  I would guess that you would do bug fixes for 7.1 but would it be the end of developing new feature sets?

We're working on 7.2 now and have no plans of discontinuing the 7 line. Dolphin 7 is used by lots if sites and will continue to evolve. We hope to bring "new blood" and funds by introducing D8 and thus create more interest that would benefit further D7 development. 

D8 is based on D7, which would help in upgrading extensions, but there are also some fundamental differences, which would separate the two.

 hopefully though ( and I assume this is the case...) D8 will be built in a way that you can upgrade from D7, or will it be such a different platform that you wont be able to?

Been gone for a while.,.,, seen the title and just came to LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

Seriously.. wasnt this the same title to the post that was like the biggest argument and the reason we lost a few great constant posters 4 FREAKING YEARS AGO??

 This is refreshing to read. I though I was prolly (sic) the only one left in the USA who thought we are so dummed down 'coz'  the politrickans can fool so many all the time.  Yes, that was off topic so please delete if needed.

It's so easy to bash the young or Dolphin and or any source that provides a platform to be used and the group that might use said platform.  IMHO it pettifogs the issues at hand.  Without question tablets and smart phones are changing the way people get information and or use a computer.  The fact that both are climbing the charts of analytics has to get the attention of developers and users.  If a site does not respond to both it is without question a issue that will cost users.  The only reason they will stay if the session is average is if you offer things others just don't have.  

I often wonder why the dolphin mobile app appears to be almost as an after thought when clearly the public at large no matter what or who or how stupid are going in that direction.  The fact that so many here bash Facebook mystifies me to this day.  I can post from my IPad, IPhone and computer with very close to the same experience.  In my field of business the major aggregators have made enormous strides into capturing the market because they understand this fact that Mobil responses to notification bringing a person back to a fantastic mobil/tablet experience is key to retention and acquiring new users. Ignore this fact and any platform will be replaced... 

 RE:

 Maybe I can help demystify it for you.  Some quotes from my very own FB news feed:

"Today I will be happier than a bird with a french fry"

"Getting our Danny's fried chicken fix!"

"Let's play, guess that beard!"  (A FB ad forced upon me)

It goes on.  Add to the endless flow of completely useless babble, numerous photos of disgusting looking food, and alcoholic beverages, and it's easy to see how FB makes it easier than ever to convey information that no one gives two shits about. Every time I look at my FB news feed, I can almost feel my IQ lowering.